✨ "I think the horse and the animal is kind of an anchor that keeps you in the present." – Krisztina Molnar Deep in the forest near Debrecen in eastern Hungary, a six-year-old foundation has become a home for animal-assisted therapy of every kind: clinical equine-assisted psychotherapy, work with neurodivergent children, family therapy, group therapy for children, adolescents and parents, and sessions for adults, alongside a small riding school, dressage and a vaulting team. Clinical psychologist Krisztina Molnar leads its clinical work with children and parents, supported by a team, 14 horses and three therapy dogs. The original plan was four to six horses and a quiet life in her "fairy forest." Instead, the foundation grew one family, one colleague and one need at a time, guided by a single principle: keep running something only as long as it serves everyone in the story, meaning the clients, the animals and the therapists. Along the way the forest itself became a therapeutic tool, complete with a wishing forest, a mound where problems can be blown away, and a transparent indoor arena that clients describe as a safety bubble inside nature. Rupert and Krisztina explore why nature can take clients deep very quickly, and why that is both a chance and a danger. They discuss how a classic "three wishes" diagnostic task becomes a fairy tale, what Winnicott's transitional space and the "wise mode" of schema therapy have to do with the forest, Hungary's relationship with mental health and transgenerational trauma, the difference between healthy fantasy and delusion, and why the horse is the anchor that keeps a person in the present moment. If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome 🔍 What You'll Learn in This Episode How a foundation planned for four to six horses grew into a multi-program center with 14 horses, three dogs and a full team Why the guiding rule is to run something only as long as it serves clients, animals and therapists alike Why mentally healthy therapy horses need a natural environment, and how that shapes therapy before a session even starts Why the forest can take clients deep very quickly, and why that brings both a chance to grow and a risk of falling apart Why children who are overloaded by impressions may fear the forest, and what they are really afraid of How having a forest, an arena, a small indoor and an inside room lets the therapist tune the setting to each client's safety needs How a transparent indoor arena, chosen because it was the cheapest option, works as a "safety bubble" and a transitional space How magical places in the forest, like the wishing forest and the mound where problems are blown away, are built around clients' psychological needs How the diagnostic "three wishes" task becomes a fairy tale, and how to translate a child's wish into an underlying need What schema therapy is, and how the forest may help clients connect to their inner "wise mode" How to tell healthy fantasy from delusion: does it connect you to yourself and others, or disconnect you? Why the horse acts as an anchor to the present moment How Krisztina sees dressage as maintaining harmony through constant rebalancing, and why training of any kind helps therapy horses handle more situations 🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode 00:03:40 Krisztina introduces herself as a clinical psychologist specializing in children and parents, certified to include her therapy dogs in sessions 00:07:10 She reveals the original plan: four to six horses and a peaceful, quiet life in her fairy forest, which is not what happened 00:08:50 Krisztina shares the one principle that guides every program: it runs only as long as it serves clients, animals and therapists 00:22:50 She explains that frightened clients are not afraid of nature itself but of their own impulses projected onto the forest 00:41:50 Krisztina describes nature as a model of resilience: a tree meeting an obstacle grows around it instead of trying the same way 100 times 00:45:30 The transparent indoor arena, chosen as the cheapest option, turns out to be the best space for therapy, and clients call it a safety bubble in the forest 00:51:00 The wishing forest story: Krisztina once wished for six horses and now has 14, so be careful what you wish for 00:56:30 She shows how the "three wishes" diagnostic task becomes a fairy tale, and how a wish for one more toy car reveals a need to be heard 01:16:40 Rupert asks whether there are real fairies in her forest, and Krisztina answers, "Of course there are" 01:30:30 Krisztina draws the line between fantasy and delusion: imagination that connects you to yourself and your relationships, versus imagination that cuts you off 01:49:30 Krisztina tells her own real-life fairy tale of asking the fairies for a life close to nature and horses, and finding more than she ever imagined 📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources Mentioned Krisztina Molnar – Clinical Psychologist, ÉletrevaLÓ Gyermekekért Alapítvány https://www.eletrevalodebrecen.com New Trails Learning Systems – Horse Boy Method, Movement Method & Takhin Equine Integration https://ntls.co Rupert Isaacson / Long Ride Home https://rupertisaacson.com Patreon Support https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome 🌍 Follow Us Long Ride Home https://longridehome.com https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh https://youtube.com/@longridehome New Trails Learning Systems https://ntls.co https://facebook.com/horseboyworld https://instagram.com/horseboyworld https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems 📊 Affiliate Disclosure Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

✨ "Dressage should be for the horse — the horse should not be for dressage." – Mark Russell, quoted by Patrick King ✨ "Speed is the enemy of balance." – Patrick King Patrick King is a classical dressage trainer based in Lexington, Virginia, who came up through Western horsemanship — 4-H as a kid, an apprenticeship with legendary colt-starter Ray Hunt, then mentorship from the late Mark Russell before he found his way, like Rupert, to Luis Valença and the Portuguese school. He's since studied with Charles de Kunffy and Bettina Drummond, earned bronze and silver dressage medals, and now teaches through his online Academy for Classical Horsemanship and clinics from his farm. He and Rupert trace how diagonal balance actually works and why the word "driving aids" gets lost in translation from the German, why competition pressure changes how horses and riders move, and how Western pleasure and saddle seat drifted from practical function into pure fashion. Patrick also walks through his simplest test for good training — could the horse explain to its paddock mates what you just asked of it — and why he stops mid-exercise to wait for a full diaphragmatic breath before asking a horse to go forward. It's a wide-ranging, technically rich conversation between two horsemen who share a mentor but arrived from opposite directions — and it's only part one. They run out of time before finishing, so a follow-up conversation is coming. FREE Helios Harmony Intro Course: https://longridehome.com/onoutpout All Books Mentioned: https://longridehome.com/books What You'll Learn in This Episode 00:01:50 – A shared mentor, Luis Valença, connects two very different paths into classical horsemanship 00:04:21 – Patrick's apprenticeship with Western horseman Ray Hunt and learning to "get to the mind through the feet" 00:08:29 – Mentor Mark Russell's insight that the feet are an extension of the spine 00:19:49 – The real difference between submission and relaxation in horse training 00:34:28 – Mark Russell's guiding principle that dressage should serve the horse, not the other way around 00:45:00 – Training the test versus testing the training, and how competition pressure changes the ride 01:23:06 – Diagonalization explained: how horses balance on diagonal leg pairs, and what that means for every transition 01:31:18 – Luis Valença's "position, balance, execute," and why "prepare, don't repair" beats fixing a movement mid-stride 01:36:36 – The "driving aids" mistranslation from German, and the physical, mental, and emotional dimensions of the half halt 01:54:37 – Why "is my horse breathing?" might be the most overlooked question in training Memorable Moments from the Episode 00:13:44 – Patrick's story of an abusively trained Western pleasure horse that once cornered him in a stall as a teenager 00:27:38 – Rupert's breakdown of dopamine, serotonin, endorphins, and oxytocin, and why riding this way feels so good 01:06:52 – The surprising history of dressage as a European import tied to wealth and status 02:01:00 – Two hours fly by, and Rupert and Patrick agree on the spot to record a part two Guest Contact & Links https://pkhorsemanship.com https://academyforclassicalhorsemanship.com About Patrick King Patrick King is a classical dressage trainer based near the Blue Ridge Mountains in Lexington, Virginia. He grew up riding a wide range of breeds in Western Pennsylvania, apprenticed with Western horseman Ray Hunt, and was later mentored by the late Mark Russell before training with Luis Valença in Portugal and riding as a guest student at Spain's Royal School. He teaches a busy clinic schedule, competes occasionally — earning bronze and silver dressage medals with encouragement from Charles de Kunffy — and runs an online Academy for Classical Horsemanship with monthly live lectures. His approach blends the Western horsemanship principle of "getting to the mind through the feet" with classical dressage biomechanics, with a particular focus on balance, breath, and treating the horse as an active participant in training.  Website: pkhorsemanship.com. 🐎 Want to go deeper? Join the Long Ride Home membership — weekly live sessions, exclusive content, and a community of riders seeking real connection with their horses. 👉 https://longridehome.com — just $24.95/month See All of Rupert's Programs and Shows: Website: https://rupertisaacson.com Follow Us: Long Ride Home Website: https://longridehome.com Facebook: https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh Instagram: https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh YouTube: https://youtube.com/@longridehome New Trails Learning Systems Website: https://ntls.co Facebook: https://facebook.com/horseboyworld Instagram: https://instagram.com/horseboyworld YouTube: https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems Affiliate Disclosure: Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show. academyforclassicalhorsemanship.com

 ✨ "Well, I'm an engineer. I collect data." – Laila Rahmatian  Laila Rahmatian is an autism mom and former NASA engineer, originally from Houston and living in Indianapolis, Indiana when her son Donatello was diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder in October 2024 — now based near Frankfurt, Germany. Unlike most guests on this show, Laila isn't a practitioner — she's a service user. After her son's diagnosis, she brought her engineering background to bear on his care, systematically tracking data across a comparison of therapy approaches and, eventually, more than 70 Horse Boy Method sessions. This conversation covers Laila's diagnosis journey, why she walked away from a well-regarded autism center within minutes of touring it, the chance referral that led her family to Horse Boy Method after relocating to Germany, and the session-by-session developmental milestones her data captured — from a son who could barely stay on a horse for a minute to one making spontaneous eye contact, sleeping through the night, and initiating speech. If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome 🔍 What You'll Learn in This Episode Why the first signs of Donatello's autism showed up not as a language delay but as a failure to respond to his own name — until a summer camp counselor discovered it wasn't the name he needed to hear, it was his mother's voice How Laila's background as a former NASA engineer, and later an ADHD coach and tutor, shaped her instinct to research every option rather than accept the first professional's recommended protocol Why Laila and her husband initially tried to "rule out" the diagnosis entirely, and what changed their minds What made Laila walk out of a well-regarded autism therapy center within ten minutes of touring it, and why environment turned out to matter as much as method How a chance referral from a school in Germany — not a marketing campaign — led Laila's family to Horse Boy Method for the first time Why Laila decided to start formally recording data on her son's sessions, and how skepticism from others became the reason she started tracking numbers What Laila's session-by-session data showed across roughly 70 sessions — from a child who could barely stay on the horse for a minute to one making spontaneous eye contact, sleeping through the night, and initiating speech How working with multiple Horse Boy and Movement Method practitioners across Germany gave Laila a way to compare approaches and see which data patterns held up Why Laila enrolled in Movement Method training herself rather than only bringing her son to sessions, and how that changed her ability to support him at home What Laila is now planning for her family's next chapter — a "Horse Boy pilgrimage" across the practitioner network in Europe 🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode [00:01:15] Rupert introduces Laila as a mother tracking hard data on her autistic son's progress — and a former NASA scientist — flipping the show's usual practitioner-focused format [00:06:33] Laila recalls getting her son's diagnosis over the phone while driving, and telling the doctor she felt like they were "out to get my insurance money" [00:13:26] Laila breaks down in tears within ten minutes of touring a well-known autism therapy center, describing its sterile, neon-lit rooms as feeling like an asylum [00:29:30] Laila shares getting fired from a substitute teaching job at a Christian school for swearing in class — an unexpected twist in the chain of events that push her family toward the move to Germany [00:33:26] Laila recounts thinking "Horse Boy" was simply the German word for horse therapy, and mistakenly believing Rupert didn't speak English before their first meeting [00:39:50] Laila describes watching Donatello ride for the first time and hearing Rupert mention oxytocin and neuroplasticity — the moment she starts to move past her skepticism [00:54:52] Laila explains why she started formally logging data on every session: "Well, I'm an engineer. I collect data" [00:59:35] Laila walks through the data from session 19, when Donatello began saying "on" and "off" without prompting, answered yes/no questions at school, and slept through the night for the first time [01:20:38] Laila describes session 63, when Donatello pointed and said "That way" while on the horse [01:20:59] Laila recalls a session with practitioner Carla Brahms where Donatello sang and moved his hands on horseback, bringing Carla to tears 📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources Mentioned Laila Rahmatian https://www.instagram.com/lailaalieh/ New Trails Learning Systems – Horse Boy Method, Movement Method & Takhin Equine Integration https://ntls.co  Rupert Isaacson / Long Ride Home https://rupertisaacson.com  Patreon Support https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome 🌍 Follow Us Long Ride Home  https://longridehome.com  https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh  https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh  https://youtube.com/@longridehome  New Trails Learning Systems  https://ntls.co  https://facebook.com/horseboyworld  https://instagram.com/horseboyworld  https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems 📊 Affiliate Disclosure Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

✨ "You do it by offering before you ask, connection before direction." – Jenifer Zeligs ✨ "Look with appreciation. Look with delight. Look with interest. Look with curiosity." – Jenifer Zeligs Jenifer Zeligs has spent her life reading animals of every kind, from cheetahs and wolves to sea lions and horses. She started at the National Zoo at nine years old, mentored by exotic animal trainer Casey Cover, and went on to a career that helped shape modern liberty horse training. She is also the person that legendary horse trainer David Lichman credits with the "come bearing gifts" philosophy that underpins his own work. The conversation ranges across the two foundational techniques of animal training, why prevention beats correction in a crisis, and the true story of training sea lions to film humpback whales in the open ocean. Jenifer and Rupert also explore how a childhood horse allergy set her on this path, why individual variation matters more than breed or species, and how her practice as a Buddhist has shaped the way she teaches fearlessness and calm to horses. A wide-ranging, generous conversation between two people who have spent decades thinking about what animals need from us. FREE Helios Harmony Intro Course: https://longridehome.com/onoutpout All Books Mentioned: https://longridehome.com/books What You'll Learn in This Episode 00:04:23 – How a childhood horse allergy led Jenifer into a lifelong career as an animal behaviorist 00:10:18 – The two foundational techniques of bridging (reward markers) and targeting that changed how she trains any species 00:14:13 – The "come bearing gifts" principle: offering trust before ever asking for anything in return 00:35:42 – What actually makes you a safe space for an animal, and what makes you unsafe 00:41:31 – Systematic desensitization, and why announcing your intentions changes everything 00:52:15 – The difference between behavioral and environmental enrichment, and why horses are missing out 00:56:00 – Why consistency matters for communication but variety matters for motivation 01:09:19 – The extraordinary story of training sea lions to film whales in the open ocean 01:28:00 – "Contra freeloading," and why animals (and humans) are wired to want to work for things 02:08:24 – Teaching a horse to find calm through a simple "head down" cue Memorable Moments from the Episode 00:14:43 – Jenifer describes conditioning trust with cheetahs, mountain lions, and wolves through patient, positive interactions from behind a safety barrier 01:14:43 – A sea lion caught between orcas and open water swims 20 miles home, then leaps into the boat exhausted 01:40:18 – Jenifer's reminder that the best trainers "don't get into the crash" in the first place 02:10:00 – The story of the notoriously aggressive horse David Litchman connected her with, and how a new paradigm transformed him 02:15:00 – Rupert traces the story of the Buddha's own horse, Kantaka, and its place in Buddhist legend Guest Contact & Links animaltraining.us Books: Animal Training 101: The Complete and Practical Guide to the Art and Science of Behavior Modification https://amzn.to/3UA43YZ Mindful Partners: The Zen Art and Science of Working with Animals https://amzn.to/4xM2KVw About Jenifer Zeligs Jenifer Zeligs is an animal behaviorist, psychologist, and author who has spent decades working with species ranging from horses and dogs to cheetahs, wolves, and sea lions. She began her training career at the National Zoo at nine years old, mentored by exotic animal trainer Casey Cover, and later became a foundational influence on liberty horse trainer David Lichman, who credits her "come bearing gifts" philosophy as central to his own approach. She is the author of Animal Training 101 and Mindful Partners: The Zen Art and Science of Working with Animals, and teaches online courses at animaltraining.us. Now based in Oxford, England, she brings together decades of hands-on behavioral science with a practicing Buddhist's approach to trust, safety, and fearlessness. See All of Rupert's Programs and Shows: Website: https://rupertisaacson.com Follow Us: Long Ride Home Website: https://longridehome.com Facebook: https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh Instagram: https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh YouTube: https://youtube.com/@longridehome New Trails Learning Systems Website: https://ntls.co Facebook: https://facebook.com/horseboyworld Instagram: https://instagram.com/horseboyworld YouTube: https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems Affiliate Disclosure: Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

✨ "It's not that I gave up. I switched." – Carolina Lockwood  Carolina Lockwood joins Rupert Isaacson from Bariloche, in the Patagonia region of Argentina, where she has spent more than 30 years building equine-assisted work from the ground up — first blending art therapy with horses, then training directly with Rupert in Texas, then running an intensive Horse Boy–style program, then coaching, and now facilitating horse-based energy healing. What makes Carolina's story distinctive is the environment she's built it in. In the areas around Bariloche, horse theft for meat is a real and recurring danger — over the years Carolina has lost five horses to thieves, including cases where stolen horses were found slaughtered. She talks candidly about tracking horses down with the police, the informal social protections that eventually stabilized her herd's safety, and the anxiety that never fully goes away even after 30 years without an incident. The conversation traces her full arc: building a team of six staff and 30 kids a week at the height of her program, learning to read burnout in both horses and herself, closing that chapter deliberately rather than abandoning the work altogether, and evolving into equine coaching (trained through Kathy Pike and the Linda Kohanov lineage), liberty work (with Jean-François Pignon and Celeste Solzenne), and now a year-plus training in horse-facilitated energy healing with Saskia Marroquin of Caballo Cósmico. Along the way, Rupert and Carolina dig into what "energy work" actually means in practical terms, and why practitioners shouldn't feel locked into one rigid model for life. If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome 🔍 What You'll Learn in This Episode How Carolina moved from art therapy and ceramics work with special-needs kids into equine-assisted work in Bariloche, Patagonia Why she traveled to Texas to train directly with Rupert after discovering the Horse Boy film What it's actually like running horses in a region where theft and slaughter for meat is a recurring, organized threat — and how she and her family tracked down stolen horses with the police Why gauchos' and polo horses are rarely stolen while therapy and pleasure horses are the ones targeted How Carolina rebuilt her herd's security by relocating and relying on informal community protection rather than fences or guns What her own "non-structure structure" for horse welfare looks like, built around free roaming, herd life, and trust — and how it differs from the fitness-and-conditioning approach used in Horse Boy Method How she learned to read burnout in a horse, including a beloved therapy horse who started biting handlers when he was "done" Why she eventually closed her intensive riding-based program on purpose, and how she thinks about that decision now How she transitioned into equine coaching, training with Kathy Pike and the lineage of Linda Kohanov in Colorado What liberty work with Jean-François Pignon and his student Celeste Solzenne taught her about horses reflecting a person's inner state How she began training in horse-facilitated energy healing with Saskia Marroquin of Caballo Cósmico, and what that work looks like in practice The story of a terminally ill client whose final wish involved Carolina's horses, and what it revealed to her about this kind of healing What Carolina's dream is for a future retreat and rescue sanctuary in Patagonia, and why she's decided to say it out loud 🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode [00:02:02] Carolina's path from art therapy and ceramics to horses, and the natural horsemanship training with Paul Walker that changed her perspective [00:06:27] Discovering the Horse Boy film, writing to Rupert, and going to Texas to train [00:11:56] The reality of horse theft and slaughter for meat in the mountains around Bariloche [00:15:22] Tracking down stolen horses with the police, and the ones she never got back [00:28:36] Carolina's "non-structure structure" for horse welfare, compared with Horse Boy's fitness-based system [00:38:00] A beloved therapy horse starts biting handlers — reading the signs of equine burnout [00:51:00] Carolina's own burnout, and the deliberate decision to close her intensive program [00:59:42] Liberty training with Jean-François Pignon and Celeste Solzenne [01:19:00] The story of a terminally ill client and what happened in her final horse session [01:32:55] Carolina's dream of a future healing retreat and rescue sanctuary in Patagonia 📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources Mentioned Carolina Lockwood – Equine-assisted practitioner, coach & energy healing facilitator Email: carowood9@gmail.com Patreon Support https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome 🌍 Follow Us Long Ride Home https://longridehome.com https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh https://youtube.com/@longridehome New Trails Learning Systems https://ntls.co https://facebook.com/horseboyworld https://instagram.com/horseboyworld https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems 📊 Affiliate Disclosure Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.