✨ "I think love is just not blocking out your connectedness to anything else." – Warwick Schiller ✨ "The same action with a different intention has a different energetic signature." – Warwick Schiller Warwick Schiller joins Rupert Isaacson for a wide-ranging conversation on altered states of consciousness in horsemanship, a subject the two first began exploring together on Warwick's own podcast. Rupert opens with the story of his son Rowan's healing ceremony with Kuku Yalanji shamans in Australia's Daintree Rainforest, and the two trace the theme from there into what "consent" and so-called horse slapping actually look like through a horse's nervous system. From there the conversation moves through the deep history of horse worship, from the goddess Epona and Xenophon's writings to Roman cavalry rituals and Mongolian shamanism, and lands on a central idea both men keep circling back to: that intention itself changes the energy, or as Warwick puts it, the "energetic signature," of any action, whether that's patting a horse, backing one up, or riding into battle. A wide-ranging, unhurried conversation that moves from hardware stores and rodeo bulls to henbane, King Arthur, and a closing reading from the Hadith. What You'll Learn in This Episode 00:00:36 – Rupert opens the episode by introducing the theme of altered states of consciousness in horsemanship 00:05:24 – Rupert recounts his son Rowan's healing ceremony with Kuku Yalanji shamans in the Daintree Rainforest 00:11:03 – Warwick unpacks consent, "horse slapping," and what it means to actually be present with a horse 00:24:13 – Why Warwick loses all sense of time while running clinics, and what that says about altered states 00:38:38 – A journey through the ancient history of horse worship, from Epona and Xenophon to Roman cavalry and Mongolian shamanism 00:44:49 – What it might look like to bring ritual and reverence back into everyday training 01:09:20 – Warwick on his real job as a teacher: "busting" people's long-held truths 01:27:00 – The henbane story, and how intention changes the "energetic signature" of an action 01:41:00 – How a Horse Boy fox hunt became a bloodless, inclusive tradition for kids with special needs and refugee children 01:51:24 – Ancient horse divination rituals from the Baltic to Rajasthan, and the Hadith reading that closes the episode Memorable Moments from the Episode 00:56:21 – Warwick's story about trying to buy "starter cord" from a bemused hardware store clerk 01:01:14 – Rupert admits he prays before every clinic or talk, weaving together Christian and Germanic horse-god iconography 01:28:56 – The Elizabeth Gilbert and Raya story: the same purse-saving gesture, told twice, with two very different meanings behind it 01:57:15 – Warwick closes with a line from the Hadith that, as he puts it, ties the whole conversation together 01:59:24 – Rupert describes something "coming out of the cliff" and speaking to him during a retreat in Sweden Warwick Schiller https://warwickschiller.com Journey On Podcast Warwick's own podcast, referenced throughout the conversation as the place he and Rupert first began discussing these ideas See All of Rupert's Programs and Shows: Website: https://rupertisaacson.com Follow Us: Long Ride Home Website: https://longridehome.com Facebook: https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh Instagram: https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh YouTube: https://youtube.com/@longridehome New Trails Learning Systems Website: https://ntls.co Facebook: https://facebook.com/horseboyworld Instagram: https://instagram.com/horseboyworld YouTube: https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems Affiliate Disclosure: Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

✨ "It's not about the job or the wages. You have to love it with absolute passion." – Helen Picha Helen Picha manages Liskennett Farm, a groundbreaking equine-assisted therapy center for children and adults with autism and intellectual disabilities in Granagh, County Limerick, Ireland, on the border of Limerick and Cork. She took over as manager two years ago after eleven years working alongside founder David Doyle, and now runs the 80-acre center — home to 23 horses across residential, day, and equine programs — that Rupert calls the cutting edge of best practice in equine-assisted therapy. What sets Liskennett apart is scale paired with radical openness. Every Saturday, the farm runs a booking-free, fee-free open day that draws between 80 and 100 children, no appointment required, no family turned away. Its indoor arena, originally built for riding, has been repurposed entirely into a music, movement, and play space, because the horses and children preferred being outdoors. And many of Liskennett's horses are retired Thoroughbred racehorses, some placed at Cheltenham, brought down from the racing circuit through a careful, months-long retraining process before ever carrying a child. In this conversation, Helen and Rupert trace Liskennett's origin story — from a 2012 Horse Boy demo, a young woman's tragic death, and a €3 million donation to a modern therapy campus — and dig into how the farm actually runs day to day: horse selection and retraining, staff burnout prevention, community integration through an inclusive fox hunt and horse show, and Liskennett's expansion into new satellite centers backed by €6 million in Irish government funding. If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome 🔍 What You'll Learn in This Episode How Liskennett Farm evolved from an 80-acre burned-out stud farm into a state-of-the-art residential, day, and equine therapy hub serving hundreds of children and adults with autism and intellectual disabilities Why founder David Doyle built a "step in, step down, step out" model, letting families in crisis access residential support without being permanently separated What Liskennett's booking-free Saturday open days look like, welcoming 80 to 100 children with no appointment, no fee, and no rush How the farm's Christmas open day scaled to 300 children in a single day, all riding and meeting Santa, with zero bookings and zero meltdowns Why Liskennett retired the original purpose of its indoor arena entirely, turning it into a music, movement, and play space instead How retired racehorses, many connected to the McManus racing family, are systematically retrained over six to twelve months before ever carrying a child What the "MMM Room" (Movement Method to Music) is, and how a chance visit from founder David Doyle's daughter Caroline inspired its creation How Liskennett integrates families into local community life through an inclusive fox hunt, agricultural show classes, and an annual fundraising concert Why Helen believes horsemanship fundamentals — temperament, soundness, and long, slow conditioning work — are the foundation of safe therapeutic riding How the farm is expanding with new satellite hubs in Charleville and Kanturk, backed by €6 million in HSE funding What Helen learned from an early personal loss that quietly shaped her approach to working with families years before she ever set foot in Liskennett How Helen and her team plan for staff burnout with rotating schedules, an open culture around asking for help, and regular team celebrations 🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode [00:04:50] Rupert traces how Liskennett came to exist: a 2012 Horse Boy demo organized by Shelley Murtagh, who died of a brain tumor three months later — and three years after that, an email from David Doyle leading to €3 million raised for the center [00:09:02] Helen shares that at age 20 she had a daughter, Danielle, born with spina bifida and hydrocephalus, who lived 11 months — an experience that quietly planted the seed for her future work, long before she knew it [00:12:13] Helen describes Liskennett's booking-free Saturday open days: up to 100 children riding between 9:30am and 3:30pm, with no appointment required and no family turned away [00:14:59] Last Christmas, 300 children went horse riding and met Santa in a single day with no booking system, and Helen says not one child had a meltdown [00:25:00] Rupert recalls the moment eight nonverbal autistic boys galloped past him independently on Liskennett's ponies, taking instruction and riding single file at the canter [00:31:43] Helen walks through how retired Thoroughbreds, including horses that placed at Cheltenham, are brought down from the racing circuit over six to twelve months before any child rides them [00:47:16] Helen tells the story behind the "MMM Room" — inspired by watching founder David Doyle's autistic daughter Caroline light up at the sight of mirrors and music in an unrelated training room [01:01:00] Helen reveals the scale of Liskennett's growth: a new satellite center in Kanturk backed by €6 million in HSE funding, with Ireland's Taoiseach turning the sod at the site [01:20:40] Rupert and Helen recall Staker Wallace, a JP McManus racehorse, briefly reverting to old "racing brain" habits while walking into the Limerick Racecourse parade ring before settling back down [01:43:57] Helen is coaxed into singing a verse of a Christy Moore song live on the show 📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources Mentioned Helen Picha – Manager, Liskennett Farm / St. Joseph's Foundation  https://www.sjf.ie/What-We-Do/Facilities/Liskennett-Farm Liskennett Farm – Facebook  https://facebook.com/LiskennettETC Liskennett Farm – Instagram  https://instagram.com/liskennettequinetherapy St. Joseph's Foundation  https://www.sjf.ie 🌍 Follow Us Long Ride Home  https://longridehome.com https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh https://youtube.com/@longridehome New Trails Learning Systems https://ntls.co https://facebook.com/horseboyworld https://instagram.com/horseboyworld https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems 📊 Affiliate Disclosure Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

✨ "Everyone knows that the conqueror writes his story." – Louis Hook ✨ "I stood up. I told my son, 'That's not true.' And from there, I started a research path." – Louis Hook Louis Hook is a founding member of the Compton Cowboys, the decades-old therapeutic riding program based in Compton, Los Angeles, and previously featured on Rupert's Equine Assisted World podcast. He carries an MIT PhD program background and a Harvard Business School education, and for the last several years has redirected that analytical training toward an independent research project: documenting the African cavalry traditions written out of mainstream history. The catalyst was watching the film The Woman King and being stunned to see a Black cavalry on screen — a moment that sent him down a research path he is still on today. Rupert brings his own family history into the conversation, including a 19th-century surcoat, chain mail, and sword taken from a Mahdist cavalryman at the Battle of Omdurman by his ancestor, George Spotswood Sparks. Together they trace the arc of African equestrian power — the Moors' 800-year hold on southern Spain, Mansa Musa's cavalry-protected gold empire in Mali, the Kanem-Bornu Empire and Sokoto Caliphate, and the horse cultures of the Sahel that, as Rupert notes, never went away and still produce true Barb horses in Senegal today. From there the conversation moves to the American side of the story — the "brain drain" model of slavery that targeted skilled horsemen, blacksmiths, and rice farmers, and the land-grant gated-horse tradition of East Texas that Rupert witnessed firsthand. A wide-ranging, deeply researched conversation. FREE Helios Harmony Intro Course: https://longridehome.com/onoutpout What You'll Learn in This Episode 00:01:44 – Rupert's family connection to African horse cultures, sparked by a 19th-century surcoat and chain mail taken from a Mahdist cavalryman 00:07:23 – How watching The Woman King sent Louis on a research journey into Africa's erased cavalry history 00:11:19 – The Moors' 800-year conquest of southern Spain and their overlooked African identity 00:23:00 – Mansa Musa's cavalry-protected gold empire, and Louis's case that he ranks among history's five greatest men 00:35:19 – Why true Barb horses survive today only in Senegal 00:37:43 – How the Catholic Church whitewashed Christian imagery and helped embed a racial hierarchy 00:53:29 – The "brain drain" model of slavery — how expert horsemen, blacksmiths, and rice farmers were targeted and bought at a premium 00:58:00 – The land-grant horse culture of East Texas, where freed slave families built a gated-horse tradition still alive today 01:13:29 – Louis and Rupert trace the likely African roots of dressage rising star Nashon Cook 01:30:04 – The "horses to heal, horses to harm" philosophy — how the same training system can wound or heal Memorable Moments from the Episode 00:04:02 – Rupert describes the surcoat, chain mail, and sword hanging on his family's wall, taken from a Mahdist cavalryman by his ancestor 00:09:36 – Louis recounts standing up in the theater during The Woman King and telling his son, "That's not true" 01:00:13 – Rupert recalls roughly 200 Black riders on gated horses passing his Texas home, beer trucks blasting hip-hop 01:19:43 – Louis describes the emotional experience of visiting "The Last Bath," the Ghanaian site where enslaved people were bathed before auction 01:34:38 – Louis walks through using AI to fact-check erased history, using the Benjamin Franklin slavery example Guest Contact & Links Louis Hook's book, Black in the Saddle: From African Cavalries to Modern Cowboys https://amzn.to/4htcuPf Louis is a founding member of the Compton Cowboys, the Compton, Los Angeles-based therapeutic riding program also featured on Rupert's Equine Assisted World podcast. https://educatedhoodrat.com About Louis Hook Louis Hook is a founding member of the Compton Cowboys, a therapeutic riding program serving Compton, Los Angeles for several decades. He brings an MIT PhD program background and a Harvard Business School education to his independent research into the African cavalry cultures erased from mainstream history. He is the author of Black in the Saddle: From African Cavalries to Modern Cowboys, with a second volume in progress tracing his own ancestral roots to Sierra Leone and Burkina Faso. See All of Rupert's Programs and Shows: Follow Us: Long Ride Home Website: https://longridehome.com Facebook: https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh Instagram: https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh YouTube: https://youtube.com/@longridehome New Trails Learning Systems Website: https://ntls.co Facebook: https://facebook.com/horseboyworld Instagram: https://instagram.com/horseboyworld YouTube: https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems Affiliate Disclosure: Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

✨ "I think the worst thing that people can do is say no." – Nicola Hepburn Equine Learning is a therapeutic and alternative education provision based at Wootton Park in Warwickshire, UK, founded by Nicola Hepburn in 2008 as one of the UK's earliest equine-facilitated learning organizations. Today it helps neurodivergent young people and adults with learning difficulties build academic, vocational, and life skills through horses — work that has grown from a small community project into a full alternative education provider funded largely through local authority contracts. Equine Learning's post-16 students earn accredited qualifications entirely through hands-on coursework rather than sit-down exams, spend two to three years working at their own pace, and never number more than six students a day — a boutique model built on trust rather than test scores. In this conversation, Nicola and Rupert dig into what it actually takes to fund and sustain a program like this: how to find and win local authority tenders, the property crises that nearly ended Equine Learning more than once, and the hard lessons about charging for services versus giving them away for free. Nicola also opens up about being homeless at 17 — an experience that shaped her mission to build the safe, inclusive space she needed as a teenager — and shares her master's research on educational trauma, plus her plans for a new wellness retreat program addressing menopause, grief, and midlife transitions. If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome 🔍 What You'll Learn in This Episode How Nicola Hepburn's path into equine-facilitated learning began with a 2005 training course, and how she trained under a colleague of US pioneer Barbara Rector How Equine Learning evolved from a small 2006 community project for adults with learning difficulties into a full alternative education provision for neurodivergent post-16 students Why Equine Learning's qualifications are entirely work-based and assessed through coursework rather than sit-down exams How local authority tendering works, including where to find tendering portals and how to write a winning bid Why persistence matters even after a tender rejection, and what Nicola learned from bids that didn't succeed Why Nicola caps her education program at six students a day, and why students typically stay two to three years How years of property setbacks — from a tiny barn arena to losing a fully-funded site — eventually led Nicola to Wootton Park Why she now advises new practitioners to look beyond a traditional "stable yard" when searching for property What she learned about entitlement and service value after offering free sessions early on, and why she moved to a paid model with limited scholarships Why clear behavior policies and signed participant agreements protect both practitioners and the people they serve How building trust — including letting a young person leave a session if they truly want to — creates lasting engagement What her master's research revealed about educational trauma in neurodivergent students How Nicola's own experience of teenage homelessness shaped her mission to create Equine Learning's safe, inclusive space 🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode [00:00:44] Rupert introduces Nicola Hepburn of Equine Learning as one of the UK's equine-facilitated learning pioneers [00:02:07] Nicola traces her path into the field back to a 2005 training course at the Unicorn Trust in Stow-on-the-Wold [00:10:50] Nicola describes how Equine Learning evolved from adult day-center visits into a full alternative education provision for neurodivergent young people [00:24:43] Nicola walks through exactly how to find and win a local authority tender [00:34:01] Nicola recounts losing a fully-funded property right after raising £50,000 to build an arena, left with 20 horses and nowhere to go [00:47:22] Nicola shares her philosophy on asking for help: "the worst thing that people can do is say no" [00:52:04] Rupert tells the story of "Big Al," the Texas landowner who said no for years before his land became one of their most cherished spots [00:58:24] Nicola and Rupert compare notes on the risks of offering services for free versus charging [01:13:47] Nicola explains why letting a young person leave a session when they want to actually builds trust [01:19:02] Nicola opens up about becoming homeless at 17 [01:21:47] Nicola credits a Blockbuster store manager who believed in her with turning her life around and helping her buy her first horse [01:35:07] Nicola shares her vision for wellness retreats addressing menopause and grief 📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources Mentioned Nicola Hepburn – Founder, Equine Learning https://equinelearning.org.uk Email: hello@equinelearning.org.uk New Trails Learning Systems – Horse Boy Method, Movement Method & Takhin Equine Integration https://ntls.co Rupert Isaacson / Long Ride Home https://rupertisaacson.com Patreon Support https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome 🌍 Follow Us Long Ride Home https://longridehome.com https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh https://youtube.com/@longridehome New Trails Learning Systems https://ntls.co https://facebook.com/horseboyworld https://instagram.com/horseboyworld https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems 📊 Affiliate Disclosure Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

✨ "I've never used Baucher to train anything. I've always used Baucher to heal." – Nahshon Cook ✨ "Does your horse feel good after you've done what you've done with them? ... That's connection." – Nahshon Cook Nahshon Cook is a classical dressage trainer based in Colorado whose path began riding donated horses as a kid at the Urban Farm at Stapleton, an inner-city youth program in Denver. Two mentors — Cynthia Spalding and former Cadre Noir rider Jean-François Fabier — introduced him to dressage before he was out of his teens, and after a detour through divinity school, Southeast Asia, and a stint training show and race horses in Thailand, he returned to Colorado and built a reputation for taking on horses other trainers had given up on. The conversation moves through Nahshon's approach to kissing spine, poll and TMJ tension, and how he reads a horse's tongue as a barometer for what's happening throughout the rest of the body. He walks through three distinct flexion positions he uses to unlock the hips, stifle, and hocks, and describes rehabilitating horses diagnosed with DSLD and a herniated disc using Baucher-based flexion work, treats, and nervous-system regulation. A rich, wide-ranging conversation that moves between technical dressage detail and questions of safety, mercy, and what it means to truly listen to a horse. FREE Helios Harmony Intro Course: https://longridehome.com/onoutpout All Books Mentioned: https://longridehome.com/books What You'll Learn in This Episode 00:02:07 – How riding at the Urban Farm at Stapleton in Denver opened the door to dressage 00:06:13 – What mentor Cynthia Spalding taught him about feel, not just technique 00:11:21 – Learning from ex-Cadre Noir rider Jean-François Fabier and matching training to each horse's breed 00:19:18 – Leaving divinity school for Southeast Asia, and training horses in Thailand 00:31:14 – Why he swore off training for clients, and how horses get used as "bait" 01:05:13 – The real cause of kissing spine: tension in the poll and TMJ 01:07:38 – How to use a noseband correctly so it helps the horse feel safe 01:15:44 – Reading the tongue as a map to the horse's fascia and poll 01:26:16 – The three flexion positions that unlock the hips, stifle, and hocks 01:30:45 – Treats, poll work, and grooming tools for regulating the nervous system Memorable Moments from the Episode 00:38:31 – A client asks a 15-year-old Nahshon to fake a South African accent to hide his age 00:49:34 – Healing a chronically colicking horse with stones and touch 01:14:33 – Popping a horse's spine and ribs back into place with Baucher flexions 01:28:06 – A herniated-disc horse's dramatic physical release during a flexion session 01:55:15 – Nahshon closes the conversation with an original poem Guest Contact & Links https://www.facebook.com/NahshonCookHorsemanship/ About Nahshon Cook Nahshon Cook is a classical dressage trainer based in Colorado who began riding at 13 through an inner-city youth program and went on to study with mentors from two different dressage traditions before he turned 18. His approach centers on reading tension in the poll, TMJ, and tongue as the key to unlocking a horse's back and hind end, and he's known for taking on horses — including cases of DSLD, PSSM2, and herniated discs — that other trainers and vets had written off. He now holds small working gatherings in Wisconsin rather than teaching public clinics. See All of Rupert's Programs and Shows: Website: https://rupertisaacson.com Follow Us: Long Ride Home Website: https://longridehome.com Facebook: https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh Instagram: https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh YouTube: https://youtube.com/@longridehome New Trails Learning Systems Website: https://ntls.co Facebook: https://facebook.com/horseboyworld Instagram: https://instagram.com/horseboyworld YouTube: https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems Affiliate Disclosure: Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.