✨ "The best teachers and coaches are the horses. It's important for us to learn to listen to them and see them." – Mario Contreras✨ "There is a big word I always feel is missing from the training scale — and that's joy. Where's the joy? These are movements that horses do when they feel passion." – Rupert IsaacsonMario Contreras is the head trainer at Medieval Times Chicago, the man responsible for the standard of horsemanship that stops knowledgeable riders cold in the middle of a crowd of beer-drinking tourists who have no idea what they're witnessing. Third-generation horse trainer, born in Texcoco and raised in a family rooted in the Alta Escuela and charrería traditions of Jalisco, Mexico, Mario came to the US in 1990 with no English and a lifetime of classical riding in his bones — and built a 35-year career inside one of the most demanding equestrian entertainment operations in North America.In this wide-ranging conversation, Rupert and Mario cover the deep roots of Mexican horse culture that most American dressage riders have never heard of, how Mario trains complete beginners to become knights performing before 1,500 people in under three years, and why cross-training, liberty work, and genuine joy are the true secrets to keeping horses and riders performing at their best. They also dig into the lost art of schoolmaster training, the in-hand and ground work that underpins everything Mario does, and the vision — still unfinished — of building Mexico a national horsemanship school at the level of Jerez or the Spanish Riding School.A rich, warm conversation between two horsemen who share a deep reverence for the old masters and a conviction that horses teach us more than we teach them.FREE Helios Harmony Intro Course: https://longridehome.com/onoutpoutWhat You'll Learn in This Episode• How the Contreras family built a three-generation tradition of Alta Escuela and charrería in Mexico, and how it led Mario to Medieval Times [00:02:35] What charrería is, why it matters, and how Mario's father blended it with classical Alta Escuela to create something unique [00:08:46] The role of Andalusian horses in promoting Mexican culture — and how the Aztec horse breed came to be [00:03:19] Why Medieval Times hires actors and athletes with no riding background — and how Mario turns them into skilled knights in three years [00:20:37] How Mario's brother Marcial pushed him harder as family than he would have pushed anyone else, and what that taught him about leadership [00:27:46] The value of getting your hands dirty: why Mario still cleans stalls and brushes horses, and why that's inseparable from great horsemanship [00:30:11] The case for in-hand and ground training before ever mounting a horse — and how Mario uses it to teach piaffe, passage, and the Spanish walk [00:32:18] Why schoolmaster horses are the missing ingredient in modern dressage training, and how the old masters always put beginners on the best horses first [00:51:24] Cross-training as the antidote to burnout: how mixing dressage, Alta Escuela, liberty, working equitation, and games keeps horses genuinely joyful [01:34:10] Mario's approach to stallion management, redirecting energy, and why isolation is the worst thing you can do for a difficult horse [01:15:07]Memorable Moments from the EpisodeRupert describes watching a rider perform three caprioles in a row at Medieval Times while the crowd sips beer — and no one in the room understands what they're seeing [00:01:32] Mario recounts the moment he first rode for Medieval Times in California and was so hooked he never looked back [00:26:56] Mario describes being deported from the US, spending four years in Mexico without his family or friends, and then getting a call from Medieval Times offering to bring him back legally — via a detour to Cancun as a pirate [01:53:59] Mario was invited to ride Claudio Castilla Ruiz's Olympic Grand Prix horse Jade — in jeans and tennis shoes — during a visit to Spain in 2008 [00:58:19] Rupert and Mario agree that joy is the word missing from the classical training pyramid — and that a horse in the arena performing with passion is the only thing that makes the audience feel they spent their money well [01:32:11]Guest Contact & LinksMario A. Contreras — Facebook and Instagram: Mario A. Contreras MC Horse Training (Chicago area / Maple Park, IL): mchorsetraining.com (currently being rebuilt) Phone: 630-415-9788About Mario ContrerasMario Contreras is a third-generation horse trainer from a family rooted in the Alta Escuela and charrería traditions of Jalisco, Mexico. His father, Jose Trinidad Contreras, was co-founder of the Escuela de Jinetes Domeq and helped introduce Andalusian horses throughout Mexico. Mario joined Medieval Times in 1990 and has spent 35 years building and running the equestrian program at their flagship Chicago castle — the largest in the company, seating 1,500 people per show. Outside Medieval Times, he teaches at his own facility, MC Horse Training, in Maple Park, Illinois, specializing in Alta Escuela, classical dressage, and in-hand training on schoolmaster horses.🐎 Want to go deeper? Join the Long Ride Home membership — weekly live sessions, exclusive content, and a community of riders seeking real connection with their horses. 👉 https://longridehome.com — just $24.95/monthSee All of Rupert's Programs and Shows:Website: https://rupertisaacson.comFollow Us:Long Ride Home Website: https://longridehome.com Facebook: https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh Instagram: https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh YouTube: https://youtube.com/@longridehomeNew Trails Learning Systems Website: https://ntls.co Facebook: https://facebook.com/horseboyworld Instagram: https://instagram.com/horseboyworld YouTube: https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystemsAffiliate Disclosure:Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

✨ "What is HeartMath doing? They're measuring your care." – Kansas CarradineDescription Kansas Carradine is a HeartMath-certified trainer, acrobatic stunt rider, and equine guided educator based in the Sierra Nevada mountains of California. She spent years performing with the international touring show Cavalia — working alongside 70+ head of horses, many of them stallions — before dedicating her work to heart-based horsemanship and emotional regulation.What makes Kansas's approach distinctive is the bridge she builds between rigorous science and lived horsemanship. HeartMath is not just a breathing technique; it is a research-backed body of work measuring the electromagnetic output of the heart, heart rate variability coherence, and the demonstrable effect of human emotional states on the beings — horse and human alike — around us. For equine-assisted practitioners, that has profound implications.In this conversation, Rupert and Kansas explore how heart coherence can be layered into any equine-assisted modality, why horses are uniquely able to detect incoherent emotional fields, the science behind the toric field and biophoton emission, and how Kansas's own path — from a difficult childhood at a California trick-riding ranch, through Cavalia's global stages, to HeartMath certification — shaped her understanding of regulation, resilience, and the horse as healer. She and Rupert also announce a planned 2027 collaboration. If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHomeIf you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome🔍 What You'll Learn in This EpisodeHow the heart functions as an electromagnetic organ — always broadcasting and receiving — and why this matters in the saddleWhy HeartMath is not a relaxation technique but an adaptogenic one: it balances both over-activated and shutdown nervous systemsWhat heart rate variability (HRV) coherence is, how it is measured, and what a 2025 peer-reviewed study in Global Advances in Integrative Medicine and Health found about its clinical outcomes for anxiety, depression, and traumaHow a 1997 University of Kassel study suggested that heart-centered meditators can emit up to 100,000 photons of light per second — compared with 20 in average individualsWhy horses in fight-or-flight broadcast incoherent fields, and why a calm, coherent horse feels the way it does to be nearHow the toric field — the measurable electromagnetic pulse of the heart — extends roughly arm's-length from the body, carrying a unique energetic fingerprint for each emotional stateWhy a little sympathetic arousal is necessary for engagement and learning, and how HeartMath creates the sweet spot between shutdown and hyperactivationHow trick riding — rooted in Cossack cavalry training — functions as a martial art form requiring zonal focus under high pressure, and what Kansas learned about regulation inside that crucibleHow to use a simple heart-focus breath practice (even mid-session) to set the energetic field before working with horses or clientsWhy HeartMath's research is now extending to plants and trees as the next frontier of measuring human heart-field impactHow Kansas's online courses approach HeartMath from the equestrian's perspective — and how to reach her for one-on-one coaching or in-person clinics🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode[00:02:20] Kansas defines HeartMath as both a research institute and a practical modality — and walks listeners through a live heart-focus breathing exercise [00:08:18] The toric field explained: the measurable electromagnetic pulse of the heart and what it broadcasts depending on your emotional state[00:17:11] Why HeartMath is not about relaxation — the adaptogenic heart response and why shutdown clients do not need more parasympathetic [00:21:59] Kansas describes running away to Reata Ranch at age 11 and being raised within its highly structured trick-riding world for seven years [00:44:39] Trick riding as martial art: how Cossack acrobatic training shaped Kansas's capacity for high-pressure focus — and the cost of that [01:20:02] Rupert reads aloud the 1997 University of Kassel biophoton study — 100,000 photons per second from heart-centered meditators [01:48:37] Kansas explains how to get started: online courses, one-on-one coaching, and the Inner Balance biofeedback device [01:51:40] Kansas leads a second live heart-coherence practice — breathing gratitude in and out through the heart [02:06:26] Rupert and Kansas announce their planned 2027 collaboration in the Sierra Nevadas and a short-form YouTube series📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources MentionedKansas Carradine – HeartMath-Certified Trainer, Equine Guided Educator https://circuscowgirl.com kansascarradine@gmail.com Facebook: Search Kansas CarradineHeartMath Institute – Research, courses, and Inner Balance biofeedback device https://heartmath.orgNew Trails Learning Systems – Horse Boy Method, Movement Method & Takhin Equine Integration https://ntls.co Rupert Isaacson / Long Ride Home https://rupertisaacson.com Patreon Support https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome🌍 Follow UsLong Ride Home https://longridehome.com https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh https://youtube.com/@longridehome New Trails Learning Systems https://ntls.co https://facebook.com/horseboyworld https://instagram.com/horseboyworld https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems📊 Affiliate DisclosureLinks to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

✨ "Somebody asked me, 'Do you teach horses collection?' I said, 'I suppose, but really what I'm trying to do is teach them connection. I want them to know me, and I want to know them.'" – Dr. Glenn Cochran✨ "The only thing about you that's bigger than that horse is your brain." – Dr. Glenn CochranDr. Glenn Cochran is a Texas cattleman, emergency room physician, classical rider, working equitation organizer, and honorary charro who has spent his life refusing the false walls between disciplines. His journey runs from starting colts at 14 under old-school cowboy Buck Kidwell — dallied to a stallion's saddle horn, left leg turning purple — through Peruvian Pasos, Andalusians, and six months of Wednesday afternoon in-hand sessions with Spanish rider Fermin Carrera, to gathering 300 head of cattle through Central Texas brush so thick you can only hear the other cowboys, not see them.The through-line is connection. Glenn practiced Oslerian medicine — sit down, listen, let the patient tell you the diagnosis — for decades in the ER, and found it mapped exactly onto how he trains horses. Rupert and Glenn also go deep on the historical origins of the Baucher flexions, tracing a possible thread from Hittite clay tablets in 1375 BC through Islamic horsemanship texts of the Reconquista to a 1665 German riding book — and asking whether Baucher invented anything at all.Glenn swims in the Black singlefooting tradition, the Mexican charrería, the Portuguese rejoneo, and Baucher-influenced classical work, and sees it as one thing. A rich, warm, wide-ranging conversation.FREE Helios Harmony Intro Course: https://longridehome.com/onoutpoutAll Books Mentioned: https://longridehome.com/booksWhat You'll Learn in This EpisodeHow Glenn started horses at 14 dallied to Buck Kidwell's stallion — and what that old-school hackamore foundation taught him [00:05:00]The chain from a 1971 Denver bookstore to Nuno Oliveira's students to Spanish rider Fermin Carrera — and six months of Wednesday in-hand sessions [00:17:00]Day-working cattle ranches across Texas, New Mexico, and Colorado — what it is and what you learn [00:26:16]Oslerian medicine: sit with the patient, let them talk, and they'll give you the diagnosis — and how it maps onto horsemanship [00:42:00]How the Masterson Method, Reiki, and skin-to-skin touch in medicine all point back to connection [00:50:17]Glenn on teaching connection, not collection — and what that actually looks like with a young horse [00:53:06]Were Baucher's flexions original? The rabbit hole: a 1665 German riding book, Islamic texts from the Reconquista, and a teenager who went to work with his uncle in Italy [01:20:23]Why the division between western riding, doma vaquera, and classical dressage is a "completely monkey idea" — and what Mongolian livestock work has to do with piaffe [01:29:39]The "song of the brush": gathering 300 head of Corriente cattle on horseback through brush so thick a snake has trouble getting through [01:39:33]The charro, the vaquero, the escaramuza, and eight minutes of floreo rope work before you ever throw — Glenn as honorary charro [01:55:25]Memorable Moments from the EpisodeBuck Kidwell refusing a chicken catcher while roping a cow's swollen udder: "I don't need no goddamn chicken catcher. I'm a cowboy." [00:09:39]66 horses moving through the foothills of the Rockies toward Estes Park — kids roadside calling "Real cowboys!" — and the horse that kicked out a fancy car's headlight [00:31:25]Rupert pauses mid-conversation to fetch Dressage in the French Tradition by Diogo de Braganza and reads aloud on whether Baucher was a plagiarist of the German old school [01:20:23]Glenn clears an 8-foot oak-plank fence in one leap after pawing back at a horned cow with a calf — who hit the boards right as he cleared them [01:36:00]Glenn's first riding experience: sneaking under the electric fence to the neighboring dairy at age 10 until a little Jersey cow let him sit on her back [01:52:44]About Dr. Glenn CochranDr. Glenn Cochran is a Texas cattleman, emergency room physician, classical rider, and working equitation practitioner based on a 500-acre ranch in Central Texas. Raised around horses from childhood, he trained under cowboy Buck Kidwell before following a lifelong thread through Peruvian Pasos, Andalusians, Lusitanos, and the in-hand Baucher tradition — shaped by Diana Christensen (a student of Nuno Oliveira) and Spanish rider Fermin Carrera. He is an honorary charro and an active voice in bridging the western, classical, and Iberian worlds. Find Glenn on Facebook: Glenn Cochran.🐎 Want to go deeper? Join the Long Ride Home membership — weekly live sessions, exclusive content, and a community of riders seeking real connection with their horses. 👉 https://longridehome.com — just $24.95/monthSee All of Rupert's Programs and Shows: Website: https://rupertisaacson.comFollow Us:Long Ride Home Website: https://longridehome.com Facebook: https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh Instagram: https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh YouTube: https://youtube.com/@longridehomeNew Trails Learning Systems Website: https://ntls.co Facebook: https://facebook.com/horseboyworld Instagram: https://instagram.com/horseboyworld YouTube: https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystemsAffiliate Disclosure:Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

Kim Barthel is an occupational therapist, international educator, and author based in British Columbia, Canada, trained in sensory integration, neurodevelopmental therapy, and holotropic breathwork. Leana Tank is an occupational therapist and consultant working with complex populations including individuals in the criminal justice system, combining equine-assisted practice with deep expertise in movement, trauma, and the nervous system.Together, they bring a rare combination of neurological precision and on-the-ground practicality to one of the most overlooked questions in equine-assisted work: what are you doing with your clients when they are not on — or with — the horse?This conversation digs into the neuroscience of the vestibular system, interoception, bilateral stimulation, and why movement is far more than muscles. Kim and Leana share concrete tools — from saddle stools at home to pickle juice to the long gaze — and explore why the relational environment may ultimately matter even more than the physical one.✨ "The brain can change until you stop breathing." – Kim BarthelIf you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome🔍 What You'll Learn in This EpisodeWhy what happens off the horse — at the barn, at home, in the community — is just as important as the session itselfHow the vestibular system develops in utero and why almost every developmental difference affects itWhat the inner core muscles (diaphragm, pelvic floor, transverse abdominis, multifidus) have to do with regulation, interoception, and feeling safeWhy the horse's three-dimensional movement provides a backdrop the brain cannot easily access in stillnessWhat interoception is, why many autistic individuals experience a blurred boundary between self and world, and how horseback riding supports thisHow to design simple home environments and daily activities that continue the neuroplasticity work between sessionsWhy stimming is not a problem to fix but a movement toward wholeness — and how to support it constructivelyWhat a "sensory diet" is and why individualized approaches work better than generic protocolsHow bilateral stimulation (crossing the midline) integrates the two brain hemispheres and why this matters for both autism and traumaWhy the relational environment — feeling seen and supported — may be the most powerful variable of allWhat the Default Mode Network and Salience Network are, and why nature shifts the brain into restorationPractical at-home tools: the long gaze, saddle-shaped stools, office chair rotation, barefoot movement, pushing/pulling exercises, and foraging tasksHow holotropic breathwork connects shamanic tradition to modern neuroscience through rhythm, movement, and breath🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode[00:09:44] Kim explains why the horse is "so much more than a horse" — the unappreciated relational variable in equine work [00:16:08] Kim breaks down the inner core system: diaphragm, pelvic floor, and why posture on a horse activates all of it [00:18:43] Kim defines interoception — the internal awareness of "this is me and this is not me" — and how the horse enables it [00:23:02] Leana describes transforming a collapsed young man through intentional off-road nature walks [00:43:00] Kim shares the story of a 13-year-old who hadn't slept more than 20 minutes a night — and how a spinning office chair changed everything [01:00:28] Rupert and Leana discuss what to give overworked care staff when the therapist walks out the door [01:19:00] Leana tells the story of a client who alchemized profound trauma into gratitude — a conversation that happened while walking [01:48:00] Kim's story: sitting silently on the curb beside an unhoused young man, saying "I see you" — and meeting him two years later at Walmart with a job [01:53:47] Kim explains the Default Mode Network vs the Salience Network — why nature restores us [02:00:53] Kim introduces "the long gaze" — how even a screensaver can shift the brain toward restoration📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources MentionedKim Barthel – Occupational Therapist, Educator, Author https://kimbarthel.ca Autism Matters – Kim Barthel's online webinar series https://kimbarthel.ca Leana Tank – OT, Constellations Consulting https://constellationsconsulting.org My Octopus Teacher – Netflix documentary featuring Craig Foster https://www.netflix.com/title/81016226 New Trails Learning Systems – Horse Boy Method, Movement Method & Takhin Equine Integration https://ntls.co Rupert Isaacson / Long Ride Home https://rupertisaacson.com Patreon Support https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome🌍 Follow UsLong Ride Home https://longridehome.com https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh https://youtube.com/@longridehome New Trails Learning Systems https://ntls.co https://facebook.com/horseboyworld https://instagram.com/horseboyworld https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems📊 Affiliate DisclosureLinks to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

What does it take to get a horse to stay with you — freely, on an open beach with no fence and no force? David Lichman has spent more than 30 years answering that question. From watching Ray Hunt work cold colts at the California State Fair, to becoming a Parelli instructor, to learning positive reinforcement from a sea lion behaviorist, his entire career has been built around one insight: make being with you the best place on earth.The conversation covers liberty training, the treats debate, undemanding time, the history of horsemanship, and why joy is the only metric that matters. There is also a miniature horse named Pepino, America's Got Talent, and Sarah Silverman asking for a mustache ride on live television.✨ "What's great about having a focus on liberty training is that if it ain't joyful, it ain't gonna happen — 'cause the horse is gonna leave." – David Lichman✨ "You're either with me or you're not with me. If you're not with me, you're gonna come back here and find out how good it is here." – David LichmanWhat You'll Learn in This EpisodeHow David's childhood in Marblehead, Massachusetts planted seeds that took decades to bloom [00:07:00]Why watching Ray Hunt start 18 cold colts in 18 days at the California State Fair changed everything [00:20:40]How David went from IBM contractor to World Grand Champion to Parelli instructor [00:22:12]The circus liberty horse epiphany: a hooded figure, six gray Arabians, and a 20-year friendship [00:38:00]What a sea lion facility in Moss Landing taught David about positive reinforcement [00:40:02]The treats debate: why combining food reward with pressure-and-release produces results "way more than twice as good" as either alone [00:57:57]Why joy is the one thing missing from every training scale — and why the joyful brain is the learning brain [01:00:24]Why Parelli said "undemanding time" first, Warwick Schiller didn't hear it for 10 years, and Mongolian horse tribes never had to be taught it [01:03:00]Why David changed the way liberty circles are taught — stop blocking departure, start making arrival irresistible [01:20:29]The beach test: 10 years of relationship, outriders who rode away, and horses that stayed [01:22:42]The America's Got Talent disaster: Pepino, a sick morning, and a performance that never happened [01:32:00]Why horses require humility — and why they'll hand it to you regardless [02:01:24]Memorable Moments from the EpisodeDavid's horse kicked in the skull on tour — found grooming the horse that kicked him through the stall door two stops later [00:08:29]Bow-and-arrow balloon shoot for 600 schoolchildren in Tennessee — dismounts by breaking two ribs [00:11:55]Watching Ray Hunt at the State Fair: nobody around him could see the miracle [00:21:04]The outriders ride away down the beach. The liberty horses don't follow [01:23:39]Pepino refuses cookies the morning of his AGT debut. The act falls apart live [01:33:49]Two mustaches shaved for charity. David's is back within three days [01:44:47]Sarah Silverman watches the Spanish walk and asks if David taught his horse to goosestep [01:53:26]Projects and Organizations MentionedDavid Lichman Natural Horsemanship https://david-lichman-5-star-parelli-professional.myshopify.com/New Trails Learning Systems / Horse Boy Method — rupertisaacson.comAbout David LichmanDavid Lichman is a natural horsemanship clinician, liberty horse trainer, and former Parelli Instructor with more than 30 years of experience. He is known for developing liberty training that works in open fields and on beaches — no round pen required — and for integrating positive reinforcement with classical and natural horsemanship traditions. He also plays bass guitar and performs jazz with vocalist Gabriela.See All of Rupert's Programs and Shows:Website: https://rupertisaacson.comLong Ride HomeWebsite: https://longridehome.comFacebook: https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrhInstagram: https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrhYouTube: https://youtube.com/@longridehomeNew Trails Learning SystemsWebsite: https://ntls.coFacebook: https://facebook.com/horseboyworldInstagram: https://instagram.com/horseboyworldYouTube: https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystemsAffiliate Disclosure:Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.