Rupert Isaacson speaks with Dr. Amanda Minervini, founder of EAGLE (Equine Guided Learning And Healing Experience), a nonprofit equine program in Colorado Springs, and professor at Colorado College. EAGLE began taking shape during the pandemic, in response to a worsening mental health crisis. It was built around the preferences of one horse: Jimmy, an off-the-track Thoroughbred who raced as a stallion, was not gelded until after age nine, and was labeled dangerous. Originally intended for Amanda's college students, the program is now open to everyone. It brings together consent-based horsemanship, classical in-hand work, liberty, scent work, and good management, with a core belief that horses have a voice and that humans don't have to be in charge. The conversation walks through how Amanda layers a session so that a horse can safely run free through the woods with people who have never been near a horse, how scent work for horses can build confidence in a spooky horse, and why a horse must always be regulated enough to learn. Amanda also shares what she observed with the medicine paint horses at a Lakota Sun Dance, and she and Rupert explore the sacred in equine-assisted work, consciousness, Saint Francis of Assisi, and how zooanthropology helps her bridge methods rather than choose just one. ✨ "I'm trying to show humans that they don't have to be in charge with horses, that it can be a shared enterprise." – Dr. Amanda Minervini If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome 🔍 What You'll Learn in This Episode What EAGLE is, and why Amanda started it in response to the mental health crisis during the pandemic How Jimmy, an off-the-track Thoroughbred labeled "dangerous," became the horse EAGLE was built around Why good management (herd life, a big pasture, free-choice hay) was the foundation of Jimmy's change How Amanda layers a session, from herd observation to arena liberty work to free movement in the woods Why she never assumes, and works with the horse she has on that day What scent work for horses is, and how to progress from visible treats in an arena to open searching on the trail Why olfactory seeking work may build curiosity and confidence in spooky horses Why a horse must be regulated enough to learn, and what to do when fear is too big How novel movement and BDNF connect horse wellbeing, human focus, and Amanda's own 17 years of kung fu What Amanda observed about the medicine paint horses and their caretakers at a Lakota Sun Dance How Saint Francis of Assisi and the idea of humans as "holobiomes" shape Amanda's view of connection How a zooanthropology lens helps Amanda act as a bridge between methods, disciplines, and cultures Why Rupert believes the synthesis of many methods is the next generation of equine-assisted work 🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode 07:38 Amanda describes Jimmy's past: a stallion on the track, gelded after age nine, labeled dangerous, yet the only one he ever hurt was himself. 11:15 A grieving paint mare in her late 20s, who had lost her best friend days earlier, crosses the ranch uninvited and canters alongside the group. 13:39 Amanda breaks down the two-and-a-half-hour session: herd observation, arena liberty with a ball and tarp, a lead-line walk, then liberty in the woods. 22:14 Amanda credits 17 years of kung fu with giving her the focus to succeed in graduate school. 36:00 From treats on barrel tops to hidden scents to scattered finds on the trail, Amanda outlines how scent work progresses. 37:32 Riding Jimmy with a rein keeper, Amanda lets him search freely, and he chooses to go over poles without being asked. 44:39 Amanda's golden rule: there is no learning in fear, and she has promised her horses she will never put them in a freak-out situation. 53:37 Amanda describes students repeating in post-session questionnaires that they felt more balanced, more focused, and even more willing to do homework. 1:19:40 Amanda spends two days with the Sun Dance's medicine paint horses and sees them grow eager when it's time for their role. 1:23:37 Rupert recalls his horse Clue leaving the herd to sniff and lick a child in a wheelchair who had drowned and seemed unresponsive, and the child becoming responsive. 1:40:54 Rupert tells how his uncle, a pathologist, explained why most people misunderstand the placebo effect. 1:59:28 Rupert shares that a new Horse Boy center is opening in County Cork, Ireland, with the prime minister turning the sod. 📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources Mentioned Dr. Amanda Minervini – Professor, Colorado College; Founder, EAGLE (Equine Guided Learning And Healing Experience) https://amandaminervini.weebly.com New Trails Learning Systems – Horse Boy Method, Movement Method & Takhin Equine Integration https://ntls.co Rupert Isaacson / Long Ride Home https://rupertisaacson.com Patreon Support https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome 🌍 Follow Us Long Ride Home https://longridehome.com https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh https://youtube.com/@longridehome New Trails Learning Systems https://ntls.co https://facebook.com/horseboyworld https://instagram.com/horseboyworld https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems 📊 Affiliate Disclosure Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

✨ "For me, competition has always been real feedback, not what I think is good." – Sinead Maynard ✨ "There's nothing about me that's gonna make you do this. You gotta love it, and we gotta love it together." – Sinead Maynard Sinead Halpin Maynard was born in Fort Worth, Texas, to Irish immigrant parents and grew up in South Carolina, where she stumbled into eventing via a hunter-jumper barn that didn't approve of her mother's black saddle. At 15 she drove herself to Middleburg, Virginia, as a working student, went on to train with David and Karen O'Connor, and after losing a horse on course, moved to England to ride for William Fox-Pitt. On the French-bred Manoir de Carneville ("Tate"), she finished third at her first five-star at 30, was first reserve for the London 2012 Olympics and rode on the US team at the 2014 World Championships in Normandy. Today she and her husband, Tik Maynard, run their farm in Florida, teach clinics, and Sinead commentates on top-level eventing and serves as a US team selector. Rupert and Sinead talk candidly about the money and hustle behind a competitive career, why she still loves competing, and how she uses competition as honest feedback on her partnership with the horse. They explore sports psychology and narrow-versus-broad focus, whether riders have the right to ask horses to compete at all, and the difference between training from fear and training from play. Sinead explains retreat and approach, why she'll swap a bigger bit for a rope halter, how rider selection now weighs horse welfare, and why fitness and varied terrain are the foundation of a sound, happy horse. A frank, funny and wide-ranging conversation between two eventers at heart. FREE Helios Harmony Intro Course: https://longridehome.com/onoutpout What You'll Learn in This Episode 00:03:19 – Why eventing's camaraderie comes from competing against the track and your own preparation, not other riders 00:17:59 – The honest truth about money, sponsorship and getting a "leg up" in upper-level horse sport 00:37:58 – William Fox-Pitt's two pieces of advice: go five-star by 30, and don't let anyone change a horse's natural style 00:52:15 – Why Sinead competes: taking the relationship out under pressure to find the flaws you can't see at home 00:56:00 – Narrow focus, broad focus and visualization: the sports psychology that turned fear into a skill set 01:06:07 – Do we have the right to ask horses to compete? Matching the horse to the job and calling it when it isn't a fit 01:09:26 – Fear versus love, the role of play, and how skill sets and familiarity make room for joy 01:17:42 – Why "tough it out" training fails, and how retreat and approach builds a horse's confidence in you 01:34:36 – How to watch a top-level horse: expression, balance and why independent balance means safety 01:45:20 – Fitness as the foundation of welfare: varied terrain, interval work and heart rate monitoring Memorable Moments from the Episode 00:19:33 – Karen O'Connor tears up Sinead's lesson check; years later she pays David with her first big prize money 00:33:04 – Sinead takes a 30-quid ferry to France to see a "skinny and ugly" horse who becomes her five-star partner 00:36:00 – Days after arriving at William Fox-Pitt's, a surprise pony provokes Tate into kicking through a metal door 00:55:32 – David O'Connor's "one jump at a time" gets a terrified Sinead around the course after breaking her femur 01:38:00 – An Italian rider jumps off his horse one fence from home at the World Championships because something feels wrong Guest Contact & Links Copperline Equestrian (Sinead & Tik Maynard): https://www.copperlineequestrian.com About Sinead Maynard Sinead Halpin Maynard is a five-star event rider who represented the US at the 2014 World Championships and was first reserve for the London 2012 Olympics with Manoir de Carneville. She learned her trade as a working student in Middleburg, with David and Karen O'Connor and as a rider for William Fox-Pitt in England. Now based in Florida with her husband, Tik Maynard, she combines competition with a horse-first approach built on retreat and approach, play and honest feedback. She teaches clinics, commentates on top-level eventing and serves as a US eventing team selector. See All of Rupert's Programs and Shows: Website: https://rupertisaacson.com Follow Us: Long Ride Home Website: https://longridehome.com Facebook: https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh Instagram: https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh YouTube: https://youtube.com/@longridehome New Trails Learning Systems Website: https://ntls.co Facebook: https://facebook.com/horseboyworld Instagram: https://instagram.com/horseboyworld YouTube: https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems Affiliate Disclosure: Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

✨ "I think the horse and the animal is kind of an anchor that keeps you in the present." – Krisztina Molnar Deep in the forest near Debrecen in eastern Hungary, a six-year-old foundation has become a home for animal-assisted therapy of every kind: clinical equine-assisted psychotherapy, work with neurodivergent children, family therapy, group therapy for children, adolescents and parents, and sessions for adults, alongside a small riding school, dressage and a vaulting team. Clinical psychologist Krisztina Molnar leads its clinical work with children and parents, supported by a team, 14 horses and three therapy dogs. The original plan was four to six horses and a quiet life in her "fairy forest." Instead, the foundation grew one family, one colleague and one need at a time, guided by a single principle: keep running something only as long as it serves everyone in the story, meaning the clients, the animals and the therapists. Along the way the forest itself became a therapeutic tool, complete with a wishing forest, a mound where problems can be blown away, and a transparent indoor arena that clients describe as a safety bubble inside nature. Rupert and Krisztina explore why nature can take clients deep very quickly, and why that is both a chance and a danger. They discuss how a classic "three wishes" diagnostic task becomes a fairy tale, what Winnicott's transitional space and the "wise mode" of schema therapy have to do with the forest, Hungary's relationship with mental health and transgenerational trauma, the difference between healthy fantasy and delusion, and why the horse is the anchor that keeps a person in the present moment. If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome 🔍 What You'll Learn in This Episode How a foundation planned for four to six horses grew into a multi-program center with 14 horses, three dogs and a full team Why the guiding rule is to run something only as long as it serves clients, animals and therapists alike Why mentally healthy therapy horses need a natural environment, and how that shapes therapy before a session even starts Why the forest can take clients deep very quickly, and why that brings both a chance to grow and a risk of falling apart Why children who are overloaded by impressions may fear the forest, and what they are really afraid of How having a forest, an arena, a small indoor and an inside room lets the therapist tune the setting to each client's safety needs How a transparent indoor arena, chosen because it was the cheapest option, works as a "safety bubble" and a transitional space How magical places in the forest, like the wishing forest and the mound where problems are blown away, are built around clients' psychological needs How the diagnostic "three wishes" task becomes a fairy tale, and how to translate a child's wish into an underlying need What schema therapy is, and how the forest may help clients connect to their inner "wise mode" How to tell healthy fantasy from delusion: does it connect you to yourself and others, or disconnect you? Why the horse acts as an anchor to the present moment How Krisztina sees dressage as maintaining harmony through constant rebalancing, and why training of any kind helps therapy horses handle more situations 🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode 00:03:40 Krisztina introduces herself as a clinical psychologist specializing in children and parents, certified to include her therapy dogs in sessions 00:07:10 She reveals the original plan: four to six horses and a peaceful, quiet life in her fairy forest, which is not what happened 00:08:50 Krisztina shares the one principle that guides every program: it runs only as long as it serves clients, animals and therapists 00:22:50 She explains that frightened clients are not afraid of nature itself but of their own impulses projected onto the forest 00:41:50 Krisztina describes nature as a model of resilience: a tree meeting an obstacle grows around it instead of trying the same way 100 times 00:45:30 The transparent indoor arena, chosen as the cheapest option, turns out to be the best space for therapy, and clients call it a safety bubble in the forest 00:51:00 The wishing forest story: Krisztina once wished for six horses and now has 14, so be careful what you wish for 00:56:30 She shows how the "three wishes" diagnostic task becomes a fairy tale, and how a wish for one more toy car reveals a need to be heard 01:16:40 Rupert asks whether there are real fairies in her forest, and Krisztina answers, "Of course there are" 01:30:30 Krisztina draws the line between fantasy and delusion: imagination that connects you to yourself and your relationships, versus imagination that cuts you off 01:49:30 Krisztina tells her own real-life fairy tale of asking the fairies for a life close to nature and horses, and finding more than she ever imagined 📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources Mentioned Krisztina Molnar – Clinical Psychologist, ÉletrevaLÓ Gyermekekért Alapítvány https://www.eletrevalodebrecen.com New Trails Learning Systems – Horse Boy Method, Movement Method & Takhin Equine Integration https://ntls.co Rupert Isaacson / Long Ride Home https://rupertisaacson.com Patreon Support https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome 🌍 Follow Us Long Ride Home https://longridehome.com https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh https://youtube.com/@longridehome New Trails Learning Systems https://ntls.co https://facebook.com/horseboyworld https://instagram.com/horseboyworld https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems 📊 Affiliate Disclosure Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

✨ "Dressage should be for the horse — the horse should not be for dressage." – Mark Russell, quoted by Patrick King ✨ "Speed is the enemy of balance." – Patrick King Patrick King is a classical dressage trainer based in Lexington, Virginia, who came up through Western horsemanship — 4-H as a kid, an apprenticeship with legendary colt-starter Ray Hunt, then mentorship from the late Mark Russell before he found his way, like Rupert, to Luis Valença and the Portuguese school. He's since studied with Charles de Kunffy and Bettina Drummond, earned bronze and silver dressage medals, and now teaches through his online Academy for Classical Horsemanship and clinics from his farm. He and Rupert trace how diagonal balance actually works and why the word "driving aids" gets lost in translation from the German, why competition pressure changes how horses and riders move, and how Western pleasure and saddle seat drifted from practical function into pure fashion. Patrick also walks through his simplest test for good training — could the horse explain to its paddock mates what you just asked of it — and why he stops mid-exercise to wait for a full diaphragmatic breath before asking a horse to go forward. It's a wide-ranging, technically rich conversation between two horsemen who share a mentor but arrived from opposite directions — and it's only part one. They run out of time before finishing, so a follow-up conversation is coming. FREE Helios Harmony Intro Course: https://longridehome.com/onoutpout All Books Mentioned: https://longridehome.com/books What You'll Learn in This Episode 00:01:50 – A shared mentor, Luis Valença, connects two very different paths into classical horsemanship 00:04:21 – Patrick's apprenticeship with Western horseman Ray Hunt and learning to "get to the mind through the feet" 00:08:29 – Mentor Mark Russell's insight that the feet are an extension of the spine 00:19:49 – The real difference between submission and relaxation in horse training 00:34:28 – Mark Russell's guiding principle that dressage should serve the horse, not the other way around 00:45:00 – Training the test versus testing the training, and how competition pressure changes the ride 01:23:06 – Diagonalization explained: how horses balance on diagonal leg pairs, and what that means for every transition 01:31:18 – Luis Valença's "position, balance, execute," and why "prepare, don't repair" beats fixing a movement mid-stride 01:36:36 – The "driving aids" mistranslation from German, and the physical, mental, and emotional dimensions of the half halt 01:54:37 – Why "is my horse breathing?" might be the most overlooked question in training Memorable Moments from the Episode 00:13:44 – Patrick's story of an abusively trained Western pleasure horse that once cornered him in a stall as a teenager 00:27:38 – Rupert's breakdown of dopamine, serotonin, endorphins, and oxytocin, and why riding this way feels so good 01:06:52 – The surprising history of dressage as a European import tied to wealth and status 02:01:00 – Two hours fly by, and Rupert and Patrick agree on the spot to record a part two Guest Contact & Links https://pkhorsemanship.com https://academyforclassicalhorsemanship.com About Patrick King Patrick King is a classical dressage trainer based near the Blue Ridge Mountains in Lexington, Virginia. He grew up riding a wide range of breeds in Western Pennsylvania, apprenticed with Western horseman Ray Hunt, and was later mentored by the late Mark Russell before training with Luis Valença in Portugal and riding as a guest student at Spain's Royal School. He teaches a busy clinic schedule, competes occasionally — earning bronze and silver dressage medals with encouragement from Charles de Kunffy — and runs an online Academy for Classical Horsemanship with monthly live lectures. His approach blends the Western horsemanship principle of "getting to the mind through the feet" with classical dressage biomechanics, with a particular focus on balance, breath, and treating the horse as an active participant in training.  Website: pkhorsemanship.com. 🐎 Want to go deeper? Join the Long Ride Home membership — weekly live sessions, exclusive content, and a community of riders seeking real connection with their horses. 👉 https://longridehome.com — just $24.95/month See All of Rupert's Programs and Shows: Website: https://rupertisaacson.com Follow Us: Long Ride Home Website: https://longridehome.com Facebook: https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh Instagram: https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh YouTube: https://youtube.com/@longridehome New Trails Learning Systems Website: https://ntls.co Facebook: https://facebook.com/horseboyworld Instagram: https://instagram.com/horseboyworld YouTube: https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems Affiliate Disclosure: Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show. academyforclassicalhorsemanship.com

 ✨ "Well, I'm an engineer. I collect data." – Laila Rahmatian  Laila Rahmatian is an autism mom and former NASA engineer, originally from Houston and living in Indianapolis, Indiana when her son Donatello was diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder in October 2024 — now based near Frankfurt, Germany. Unlike most guests on this show, Laila isn't a practitioner — she's a service user. After her son's diagnosis, she brought her engineering background to bear on his care, systematically tracking data across a comparison of therapy approaches and, eventually, more than 70 Horse Boy Method sessions. This conversation covers Laila's diagnosis journey, why she walked away from a well-regarded autism center within minutes of touring it, the chance referral that led her family to Horse Boy Method after relocating to Germany, and the session-by-session developmental milestones her data captured — from a son who could barely stay on a horse for a minute to one making spontaneous eye contact, sleeping through the night, and initiating speech. If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome 🔍 What You'll Learn in This Episode Why the first signs of Donatello's autism showed up not as a language delay but as a failure to respond to his own name — until a summer camp counselor discovered it wasn't the name he needed to hear, it was his mother's voice How Laila's background as a former NASA engineer, and later an ADHD coach and tutor, shaped her instinct to research every option rather than accept the first professional's recommended protocol Why Laila and her husband initially tried to "rule out" the diagnosis entirely, and what changed their minds What made Laila walk out of a well-regarded autism therapy center within ten minutes of touring it, and why environment turned out to matter as much as method How a chance referral from a school in Germany — not a marketing campaign — led Laila's family to Horse Boy Method for the first time Why Laila decided to start formally recording data on her son's sessions, and how skepticism from others became the reason she started tracking numbers What Laila's session-by-session data showed across roughly 70 sessions — from a child who could barely stay on the horse for a minute to one making spontaneous eye contact, sleeping through the night, and initiating speech How working with multiple Horse Boy and Movement Method practitioners across Germany gave Laila a way to compare approaches and see which data patterns held up Why Laila enrolled in Movement Method training herself rather than only bringing her son to sessions, and how that changed her ability to support him at home What Laila is now planning for her family's next chapter — a "Horse Boy pilgrimage" across the practitioner network in Europe 🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode [00:01:15] Rupert introduces Laila as a mother tracking hard data on her autistic son's progress — and a former NASA scientist — flipping the show's usual practitioner-focused format [00:06:33] Laila recalls getting her son's diagnosis over the phone while driving, and telling the doctor she felt like they were "out to get my insurance money" [00:13:26] Laila breaks down in tears within ten minutes of touring a well-known autism therapy center, describing its sterile, neon-lit rooms as feeling like an asylum [00:29:30] Laila shares getting fired from a substitute teaching job at a Christian school for swearing in class — an unexpected twist in the chain of events that push her family toward the move to Germany [00:33:26] Laila recounts thinking "Horse Boy" was simply the German word for horse therapy, and mistakenly believing Rupert didn't speak English before their first meeting [00:39:50] Laila describes watching Donatello ride for the first time and hearing Rupert mention oxytocin and neuroplasticity — the moment she starts to move past her skepticism [00:54:52] Laila explains why she started formally logging data on every session: "Well, I'm an engineer. I collect data" [00:59:35] Laila walks through the data from session 19, when Donatello began saying "on" and "off" without prompting, answered yes/no questions at school, and slept through the night for the first time [01:20:38] Laila describes session 63, when Donatello pointed and said "That way" while on the horse [01:20:59] Laila recalls a session with practitioner Carla Brahms where Donatello sang and moved his hands on horseback, bringing Carla to tears 📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources Mentioned Laila Rahmatian https://www.instagram.com/lailaalieh/ New Trails Learning Systems – Horse Boy Method, Movement Method & Takhin Equine Integration https://ntls.co  Rupert Isaacson / Long Ride Home https://rupertisaacson.com  Patreon Support https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome 🌍 Follow Us Long Ride Home  https://longridehome.com  https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh  https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh  https://youtube.com/@longridehome  New Trails Learning Systems  https://ntls.co  https://facebook.com/horseboyworld  https://instagram.com/horseboyworld  https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems 📊 Affiliate Disclosure Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.