What does it take to get a horse to stay with you — freely, on an open beach with no fence and no force? David Lichman has spent more than 30 years answering that question. From watching Ray Hunt work cold colts at the California State Fair, to becoming a Parelli instructor, to learning positive reinforcement from a sea lion behaviorist, his entire career has been built around one insight: make being with you the best place on earth.The conversation covers liberty training, the treats debate, undemanding time, the history of horsemanship, and why joy is the only metric that matters. There is also a miniature horse named Pepino, America's Got Talent, and Sarah Silverman asking for a mustache ride on live television.✨ "What's great about having a focus on liberty training is that if it ain't joyful, it ain't gonna happen — 'cause the horse is gonna leave." – David Lichman✨ "You're either with me or you're not with me. If you're not with me, you're gonna come back here and find out how good it is here." – David LichmanWhat You'll Learn in This EpisodeHow David's childhood in Marblehead, Massachusetts planted seeds that took decades to bloom [00:07:00]Why watching Ray Hunt start 18 cold colts in 18 days at the California State Fair changed everything [00:20:40]How David went from IBM contractor to World Grand Champion to Parelli instructor [00:22:12]The circus liberty horse epiphany: a hooded figure, six gray Arabians, and a 20-year friendship [00:38:00]What a sea lion facility in Moss Landing taught David about positive reinforcement [00:40:02]The treats debate: why combining food reward with pressure-and-release produces results "way more than twice as good" as either alone [00:57:57]Why joy is the one thing missing from every training scale — and why the joyful brain is the learning brain [01:00:24]Why Parelli said "undemanding time" first, Warwick Schiller didn't hear it for 10 years, and Mongolian horse tribes never had to be taught it [01:03:00]Why David changed the way liberty circles are taught — stop blocking departure, start making arrival irresistible [01:20:29]The beach test: 10 years of relationship, outriders who rode away, and horses that stayed [01:22:42]The America's Got Talent disaster: Pepino, a sick morning, and a performance that never happened [01:32:00]Why horses require humility — and why they'll hand it to you regardless [02:01:24]Memorable Moments from the EpisodeDavid's horse kicked in the skull on tour — found grooming the horse that kicked him through the stall door two stops later [00:08:29]Bow-and-arrow balloon shoot for 600 schoolchildren in Tennessee — dismounts by breaking two ribs [00:11:55]Watching Ray Hunt at the State Fair: nobody around him could see the miracle [00:21:04]The outriders ride away down the beach. The liberty horses don't follow [01:23:39]Pepino refuses cookies the morning of his AGT debut. The act falls apart live [01:33:49]Two mustaches shaved for charity. David's is back within three days [01:44:47]Sarah Silverman watches the Spanish walk and asks if David taught his horse to goosestep [01:53:26]Projects and Organizations MentionedDavid Lichman Natural Horsemanship https://david-lichman-5-star-parelli-professional.myshopify.com/New Trails Learning Systems / Horse Boy Method — rupertisaacson.comAbout David LichmanDavid Lichman is a natural horsemanship clinician, liberty horse trainer, and former Parelli Instructor with more than 30 years of experience. He is known for developing liberty training that works in open fields and on beaches — no round pen required — and for integrating positive reinforcement with classical and natural horsemanship traditions. He also plays bass guitar and performs jazz with vocalist Gabriela.See All of Rupert's Programs and Shows:Website: https://rupertisaacson.comLong Ride HomeWebsite: https://longridehome.comFacebook: https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrhInstagram: https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrhYouTube: https://youtube.com/@longridehomeNew Trails Learning SystemsWebsite: https://ntls.coFacebook: https://facebook.com/horseboyworldInstagram: https://instagram.com/horseboyworldYouTube: https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystemsAffiliate Disclosure:Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

✨ "The horses don't see the stories. They see who you are right now — and what you brought with you." – Jane StrongJane Strong is the founder and executive director of The Equus Effect, a nonprofit based in Connecticut, USA, that uses equine-assisted experiences to help veterans and first responders rebuild healthy relationships — with themselves, each other, and their communities.What sets Jane's work apart is her refusal to treat trauma as a diagnosis to manage. A former ethnographic researcher who spent decades studying subcultures for corporate clients, Jane came to horses and veterans with the same tool she'd always trusted: genuine curiosity. The Equus Effect's 16-hour curriculum blends somatic body-based practices, emotional agility training, and progressive groundwork with horses — all without metaphor, without therapy-speak, and without telling a veteran what anything means.This conversation covers Jane's unusual path — from advertising research to Monty Roberts to a 30-year-old Mustang who taught her that guilt is a waste of time — and dives deep into why horses are uniquely suited to reach the people hardest to reach: the ones still scanning for threats, still waiting for the playbook, still paying a nervous system tax no one else can see.If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome🔍 What You'll Learn in This EpisodeWhy veterans and first responders experience transition stress as a nervous system cost — and why talk therapy often falls shortHow ethnographic research trained Jane to enter any culture with curiosity instead of assumptions — and why that's essential for working with military populationsWhy The Equus Effect never uses metaphor in their horse work, and what happens when they let veterans find their own meaning insteadHow the program's somatic body scan and joint warmup prepare participants neurologically before they ever touch a horseWhy horses respond differently to officers than to enlisted personnel — and what that reveals about internal organizationWhat "uncoupling" means in trauma work, and the story of the veteran who found his focus again — safely — while leading a horse in a circleWhy Jane advises against letting participants know each other's rank, and what she learned the hard way when she didn't follow this ruleHow The Equus Effect's 16-hour curriculum unfolds across four sessions — from barn introduction to liberty work — and why soak time between sessions mattersWhat the Enneagram's three centers of intelligence (body, heart, mind) have to do with how people move and communicate with horsesWhy you don't need a military or first responder background to serve this population — and why Jane believes it may actually help not to have oneHow the program uses movie clips to open conversations about fear, vulnerability, anger, and depression — without singling anyone outWhy curiosity and compassion are inseparable, and what gets lost when we enter any population believing we already know who they areHow Jane finally secured a VA grant after 12+ years of program delivery — and what she learned about navigating that process🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode[00:02:34] Jane describes the 22-suicides-a-day statistic that launched The Equus Effect in 2008 [00:04:57] Four years of meetings before the VA agreed to send veterans — and what finally changed their minds [00:16:49] Jane explains why "helping" can hide a fixing mentality — and what curiosity looks like instead [00:41:00] Why Jane never introduces participants by rank — and the session that taught her this the hard way [00:57:34] Jane recalls losing her horse as a teenager and the moment she walked away from riding for years [01:17:25] A 35-year-old Mustang named Noche who couldn't be touched — and the message he gave her about guilt [01:57:48] The veteran who felt his focus return while leading a horse in a circle — and heard the words "this time, you were safe" [02:06:00] Jane explains how to access The Equus Effect's facilitator training and upcoming workshops [02:11:42] The nightmare of VA grant applications — and how hiring a grant writer made the difference [02:20:04] The closing reflection: can you have compassion without curiosity?📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources MentionedJane Strong – Founder & Executive Director, The Equus Effect https://theequuseffect.org New Trails Learning Systems – Horse Boy Method, Movement Method & Takhin Equine Integration https://ntls.co Rupert Isaacson / Long Ride Home https://rupertisaacson.com Patreon Support https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome 🌍 Follow UsLong Ride Home https://longridehome.com https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh https://youtube.com/@longridehome New Trails Learning Systems https://ntls.co https://facebook.com/horseboyworld https://instagram.com/horseboyworld https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems📊 Affiliate DisclosureLinks to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

What if the stars in your birth chart could tell you why you're drawn to horses — and what stands between you and the deeper connection you're seeking? Denise Elizabeth Byron has spent decades working at the intersection of astrology, psychic intuition, and soul guidance. She didn't set out to become the horse community's astrologer. She set out, as a seven-year-old girl in California, simply to understand why her grandmother kept showing up in her bedroom after she died — and never really stopped.Denise's path winds through a childhood steeped in Irish and Celtic intuition, a mother casting charts by hand in the seventies, years of study with psychic mentors, and a slow evolution from teacher to life coach to astrologer. What brought her into the horse world wasn't a horse — it was Robin Schiller, who came to a session and then brought Warwick, and the rest followed. What she found when she arrived was something she'd been searching for her whole life: a community of people who already knew how to listen.This is a wide-ranging, deeply warm conversation between two people who share a fascination with the irrational, the ancestral, and the unseen. Rupert and Denise cover past lives and what they're actually for, why horse people are natural intuitives (and often don't know it), what it means to be a fire horse in a fire horse year, and why Mercury Retrograde is not the time to gallop away. They talk about fields of consciousness and what love actually is, from photons emitted by the heart to the physics of ocean waves. And somewhere in the middle, balloons spontaneously appeared on both their Zoom screens.What emerges most clearly is this: horse women are far further along their intuitive journey than they give themselves credit for. And the thing most likely to block their connection with their horse isn't technique — it's perfectionism, and not extending to themselves the same love they so freely give their animals.Denise's message to every horse woman listening is as simple as it is quietly devastating: treat yourself with as much love as you treat your horse.FREE Helios Harmony Intro Course: https://longridehome.com/onoutpout✨ "Trust what you hear, trust what you feel. Most people who contact me are so much further along in their journey than they give themselves credit for." – Denise Elizabeth Byron✨ "Treat yourself with as much love as you treat your horse." – Denise Elizabeth ByronWhat You'll Learn in This EpisodeHow Denise's grandmother appeared in her room the night she died — and kept showing up for decades [00:02:30] The difference between being psychic and being an astrologer — and how Denise combines both [00:17:00] How Denise's astrology practice began with her mother casting charts by hand in the 1970s [00:20:30] How a session with Robin Schiller led to Denise becoming the astrologer for the Journey On community [00:34:00] Why astrology charts are portals for intuition, not just technical prediction tools [00:35:00] Why horse people make natural intuitives, and what deep listening has to do with survival [00:37:30] Why past lives may be less about other humans and more about ancestral healing [00:48:00] What a birth chart can reveal about your intuitive gifts and how to develop them [01:08:30] How the patriarchal lens has shaped astrology — and where the goddess asteroids are changing it [01:14:00] What it means to be a fire horse in a fire horse year, and what the stars say about this particular moment [01:19:00] How Rupert's Aquarius fire horse chart reflects his life's work in healing [01:22:00] What Mercury Retrograde actually is, and why it's a time for integration rather than action [01:28:00] The physics of consciousness: hearts emitting photons, ocean waves, and what love actually is [01:40:00] Why horse people tend toward perfectionism — and how it blocks connection with their horses [01:52:30]Memorable Moments from the EpisodeDenise describes setting spiritual boundaries — no visitors in the bedroom or bathroom, unless it's an emergency — and how her first mentor taught her this after a particularly awkward moment [00:12:30] Denise and Rupert discover they're roughly the same age and spend a moment pretending to be 27 and 28 respectively [00:22:30] Rupert nearly gets kicked out of university for comparing an Iron Age metal-working culture to the Industrial Revolution — and his professors are not amused [00:27:30] Denise explains how she always ends up as a "camel boy, never a pharaoh" in past life work [00:50:30] Rupert's uncle, an eminent pathologist, stuns him after watching The Horse Boy by praising it for "drawing attention to the irrational side of medicine" — and the placebo effect [01:05:00] Balloons spontaneously appear on both Zoom screens mid-conversation — neither of them made it happen [01:21:30] Denise shares that wherever she goes, a quiet coffee shop fills up within minutes — her partner David calls it a "black hole fact" [01:34:30]Projects and Organizations MentionedHeartMath Institute — heart field research and coherence work Kansas Carradine / Circus Cowgirl — HeartMath combined with horses: https://circuscowgirl.com About Denise Elizabeth ByronDenise Elizabeth Byron is an astrologer, intuitive, and soul guide who has spent over thirty years helping people understand their charts as maps of the soul rather than predictions of fate. Known in the equestrian world through her work with the Journey On podcast community, she works at the intersection of Western astrology, numerology, psychic intuition, and ancestral healing. Her gift lies not in technical chart reading but in using a birth chart as a portal — a set of symbols that opens access to deeper knowing, ancestral connection, and soul evolution. She can be reached through her website: https://deniseelizabethbyron.comSee All of Rupert's Programs and Shows:Website: https://rupertisaacson.comFollow Us:Long Ride Home Website: https://longridehome.com Facebook: https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh Instagram: https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh YouTube: https://youtube.com/@longridehomeNew Trails Learning Systems Website: https://ntls.co Facebook: https://facebook.com/horseboyworld Instagram: https://instagram.com/horseboyworld YouTube: https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystemsAffiliate Disclosure:Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

✨ "The healing process is there in service of your life, not the other way around. Do the healing in order to live." – Kira Julius Kira Julius is a German-Danish horse trainer and equine assisted practitioner whose career has taken her from working young horses in Tanzania at 16, to eight years alongside Australian warmblood specialist Will Rogers — first in the Netherlands, then Germany — to therapeutic work with autistic children and families across Germany, Denmark, Ireland, and the UK. She now runs her own practice through horserealms.com, working with horses, families, and individuals at the intersection of horsemanship and resilience.What makes Kira's perspective unusual is that she has lived the subject she now teaches. A lifelong relationship with anxiety and fear around horses, a family crisis at 18 when her father suffered a stroke that pulled her into an early adult role, and years inside the hyper-demanding world of sport horse training — including a period where her own anxiety became so acute she could barely ride — all of it has shaped a practitioner who speaks from earned experience, not theory.In this conversation, Rupert and Kira go deep on what resilience actually means — for horses, for humans, and for the practitioners who work with both. They move through the groundwork methodology Kira developed starting sensitive warmbloods, the specific exercises that release tension and build connection, and how those same principles apply when working with autistic children. They explore why always being calm may be the wrong goal, how to move through fear rather than wait for it to pass, and why the trauma conversation risks tipping into a place that keeps people stuck. This is a wide-ranging, experience-backed conversation that will resonate with anyone who works with horses, with neurodivergent individuals, or with their own inner life.If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome🔍 What You'll Learn in This Episode How curiosity overrides anxiety — and why doing the thing is often more healing than waiting until you feel ready Why "always being calm" is not the goal for horses or humans, and what heart rate variability tells us about genuine resilience How to distinguish between protective fear and anxious mental noise — and how gut instinct becomes the tool for telling them apartThe groundwork methodology Kira used starting sensitive warmbloods: approach and retreat, shoulder yields, hindquarter yields, and why crossing the midline triggers BDNF and neuroplasticityWhy the shoulder-in position is both a tension-release tool and a safety tool — and how having it reliably in place can get a handler out of serious troubleHow Kira's experience of her father's stroke at 18 shaped her understanding of grief, family strain, and the cost of going into management mode when you're struggling yourselfHow Kira's own severe anxiety crisis mid-career — when she could barely get on a horse — became the turning point that led her toward therapeutic work with humansWhy seeing possibilities rather than problems is the key reframe in both horse training and equine assisted work with neurodivergent clientsWhy the trauma conversation risks becoming a place people stay rather than move through — and what the spiral model of grief and healing offers insteadHow projecting limitations onto horses or children blocks their capacity to surprise us, and why listening to the person in front of you matters more than the story others gave youWhy joy and play are not extras in equine assisted work — they are the mechanism by which change happensWhy practitioners who want horses or clients to make big changes need to be making changes themselves🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode[00:12:38] Kira explains why waiting to feel "ready" often keeps anxiety alive — the doing of the thing is what changes your storyline[00:15:00] Kira describes what happened when her father had a stroke at 18 — and how managing practical needs meant disconnecting from her family emotionally at the same time[00:30:17] Kira takes us inside the Will Rogers yard: how they started sensitive warmbloods using groundwork, approach and retreat, and the principle of explaining the human world to the horse rather than demanding compliance[00:37:12] The connection between lateral movement, crossing the midline, and BDNF — why these classical exercises produce neuroplasticity in horses just as they do in humans[00:45:16] Why shoulder yields and hindquarter yields are not just gymnastic tools but safety tools — and how they can get a handler out of serious trouble when a horse reacts unexpectedly[00:49:08] Tarp training in front of thousands of people: how Will Rogers conditioned sharp warmbloods to treat a crashing plastic sheet as a signal to exhale, not explode[00:56:57] Kira's own anxiety crisis at Will's yard — when the pressure to produce calm horses while managing a conflict between the horse's needs and client expectations sent her into a spiral she couldn't ride through[01:00:21] The "calm at all times" myth — why both Rupert and Kira push back on the idea that triggering is a failure, and what Rupert's experience walking with lions in the Kalahari reveals about appropriate fear[01:12:23] Kira reframes the goal with horses: not calm at all times, but maintaining connection through whatever arises[01:39:14] Working with an autistic child: why listening to what the person is actually telling you matters more than the story others have given you about them[01:54:00] The grief spiral: going down to meet it, then spiraling back up to build from it — and why many people only do the first half[02:05:35] Rupert's challenge to practitioners: if you want a horse or child to make a big change, what changes are you currently making yourself?📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources MentionedKira Julius – Horse trainer and equine assisted practitioner https://horserealms.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/kira.horses_/ New Trails Learning Systems – Horse Boy Method, Movement Method & Takhin Equine Integrationhttps://ntls.coPatreon Support https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHomeAlan Pogue – Trick training / Imagine a Horse https://imaginehorse.com🌍 Follow UsLong Ride Homehttps://longridehome.comhttps://facebook.com/longridehome.lrhhttps://instagram.com/longridehome_lrhhttps://youtube.com/@longridehomeNew Trails Learning Systemshttps://ntls.cohttps://facebook.com/horseboyworldhttps://instagram.com/horseboyworldhttps://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems📊 Affiliate DisclosureLinks to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

✨ "Men don't need less empathy. They often need empathy delivered differently." – Eric Robertson✨ "Success is a tricky thing. You can get to the point where you start to believe your own bullshit — and that has some negative impacts on your relationships." – Eric RobertsonEric Robertson spent 33 years inside some of the most painful moments families ever face — divorce. As one of Austin's most respected family law attorneys, he sat across from men and women at their most raw and most desperate. What he noticed about the men changed the direction of his life. They weren't falling apart in the ways the system was built to recognize. They were shutting down, overworking, picking fights, and quietly disappearing inside themselves — and nobody had a name for what was happening to them. That observation sent Eric back to school for a second master's degree in clinical mental health counseling, and launched an entirely new career focused on men's emotional wellbeing.This conversation matters deeply if you love a man — a son, a partner, a brother, a father. So much of what Eric shares illuminates not just what men are going through, but why they behave the way they do when they're struggling, and what the people around them can actually do to help. If you've ever felt the wall go up, or watched someone you care about go quiet when you knew something was wrong, this episode will give you language, compassion, and insight you didn't have before.Rupert and Eric move through the staggering statistics behind male loneliness and suicide, the question of why successful men are often the ones struggling most, and the double standards men quietly carry. Eric walks through how depression actually shows up in men — irritability, emotional numbness, compulsive overworking, chronic pain — so listeners can recognize what they might previously have dismissed or misread. The conversation takes a genuinely practical turn when Eric demonstrates a live bilateral tapping session with Rupert on-air, offering a simple tool for emotional regulation that anyone can begin using today.Rupert brings his own lens throughout — from his years living with San Bushmen hunter-gatherer communities in southern Africa, to raising his autistic son Rowan, to his own honest reflections on therapy, mentorship, and what men actually need to heal. Whether you're listening for yourself, for someone you love, or simply because you sense the men in your world are carrying more than they're letting on — come with an open heart, and you'll leave with new eyes.What You'll Learn in This EpisodeWhy Eric left a 33-year career as a top divorce attorney to become a men's therapist — and what he kept seeing in his male clients that no one was addressing [00:03:35]The statistics behind male loneliness and suicide: 80% of suicides in 2023 were men, and 15% of young men now report having no close friends — a fivefold increase since 1990 [00:04:34]How depression and emotional distress show up differently in men — and why so many cases go unrecognized [00:10:21]Why successful men are often the ones struggling most, and how chasing external validation can quietly hollow out a life [00:16:38]The role of mentorship in Eric's own story — how one senior attorney modeled a different way to live and why Eric credits him with changing his trajectory [00:25:00] • What divorce coaching is, why it differs from therapy or legal advice, and why well-meaning "shadow advisors" often make things worse [00:37:33]The double standard men silently carry — expected to be emotionally present at home, while still judged as providers if they fall short [00:55:39]How to raise emotionally literate boys, including the powerful practice of "connection before correction" when a child acts out [00:53:03]Why young men need healthy risk — and how the loss of mentored, nature-based challenge is driving the retreat into screens and isolation [01:07:38]The neuroscience of the developing frontal cortex: why young men's brains aren't yet wired for emotional regulation, and what that means for how we respond to them [01:21:00]How bilateral tapping works to regulate emotional overwhelm — demonstrated live in the episode [01:24:15]Eric's closing framework for working with men: normalize emotion without forcing verbal vulnerability, focus on goals, and frame help as skill-building rather than weakness [01:31:49]Memorable MomentsEric describes watching male divorce clients shut down rather than fall apart — the observation that sent him back to school and into an entirely new career [00:03:35] Rupert and Eric do a live bilateral tapping session on-air — Rupert taps along as Eric guides him through the protocol, and notes a genuine shift by the end [01:24:46] Eric admits that at the height of his legal career he started believing his own success story in ways that cost him his closest relationships — and the moment he knew something had to change [00:19:00] Rupert shares the story of a young man who wouldn't leave his room — brought to his farm in winter, where chopping wood to stay warm turned out to be the intervention no therapist had managed [01:17:03] Eric describes a divorce case that flipped the gender script: a stay-at-home husband whose female breadwinner said exactly what men usually say — revealing how much of conflict is human, not gendered [00:56:18] Eric admits he used to do secret tapping exercises before every courtroom trial to manage his own anxiety — and now uses that confession to help male clients get past the "touchy-feely" resistance [01:28:36]Projects and Organizations MentionedRobertson Counseling and Therapy — Eric Robertson's practice in Austin, Texas: https://robertsonct.comAmerican Academy of Matrimonial LawyersAmerican Institute of Boys and MenEMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing)Divorce Discernment CounselingMovement Method / New Trails Learning Systems: https://ntls.coUniversity of Bournemouth equine study on domestic violence re-offendingThe Horse Boy, The Long Ride Home, The Healing Land — books by Rupert IsaacsonAbout Eric RobertsonEric Robertson is a licensed professional counselor associate based in Austin, Texas. After 33 years as a family law attorney — including serving on the board of the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers — he returned to his original calling and completed a master's degree in clinical mental health counseling. He now works with men and individuals navigating divorce, offering both therapy and divorce coaching to help people stay emotionally regulated when it matters most. His website is www.robertsonct.com.See All of Rupert's Programs and Shows: https://rupertisaacson.comFollow Us:Long Ride Home Website: https://longridehome.com Facebook: https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh Instagram: https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh YouTube: https://youtube.com/@longridehomeNew Trails Learning Systems Website: https://ntls.co Facebook: https://facebook.com/horseboyworld Instagram: https://instagram.com/horseboyworld YouTube: https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystemsAffiliate Disclosure: Links to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.